ALFA 164 LS - Engine Fan - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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ALFA 164 LS - Engine Fan

With the summer heat in Miami the engine fan runs continually, as expected.

Engine temperature is fine - so the system is doing its job.

However; the plug that goes into the fan gets very hot and eventually looks to melt and stop working.

Has anyone replaced the fan with another that may use less amp's.
My thought is less amps would equal less heat and extend the plug.

Any suggestions ?

Thanks
Chris - Miami FL
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 12:51 PM
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what ever else you do, please make sure the fan control resistor is in good condition and all connections are fresh and sound.....
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 01:58 PM
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I would disconnect connector to fan motor and check for corrosion on pins in motor connector and inside connector. Spray and clean with a deoxit electrical cleaner. Check for good tight fit of female terminals in connector on male pins in motor connector.

Do the same check and cleaning on the low speed resistor connectors as they can overheat, too. See picture of resistor in previous post. Those wire in picture are not even soldered to reisitor terminals in fan shroud. on 24v they should be factory silver soldered on and the plug on connector maybe similar to fan motor style connector.

I prefer to make the fan run on high speed in the summer time for both a/c cooling and engine cooling.

Easier to swap low and high speed relay wiring connectors on a 12v 164 though than a 24v because radiator switch connector on LHD driver's left side of car. On 24v radiator cooling switch on R/H passenger side (LHD) and all wires in one connector.

Any loose or corroded terminal will generate heat.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 02:22 PM
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should have added that I inherited the resistor in that state and it caused problems

164LS 1994
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 03:00 PM
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Chris.

The connector gets hot and the plastic melts, warping the connector and causes some arcing. Have a look at the connector and see if any of the contacts show burn marks. I rebuilt mine (opened up the motor to check for brush wear, bearing. etc) and cleaned up the contacts but I will likely solder new wires directly to the motor and add a new connector up near the top of the rad. The inside has a brass bearing (unless I am mixing up the rad motor and tranny motor). There are inexpensive top mounted fans available but usually smaller so you would have to connect 2 side by side. I am not sure I would trust those. I did buy a 6" for the tranny cooler but the current fan proved o.k. so figured I would just keep it in storage.
I am only mentioning the internal check and cleaning as I wanted to be sure there was no internal resistance from corrosion at the shafts. Any increase resistance could cause extra load and heat,
Best of luck.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 03:27 PM
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should have added that I inherited the resistor in that state and it caused problems
I sure can see why.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdigilio View Post
Has anyone replaced the fan with another that may use less amp's. My thought is less amps would equal less heat and extend the plug.
Post #22 in the thread at: https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164...stitute-2.html outlines how I installed a Spal fan in my 164. Even if your electrical connections are perfect, heat from the forward exhaust manifold will distort the plastic in those connectors (and cook the lubrication out of the fan motor).

I didn't retain any part of the original connector - it was literally toast. I did retain the stock relays and resistor system, so my Spal fan retains the 2-speed operation of the stock set-up.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 05:37 PM
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yeah that motor can be rebuilt ; there are two bearing races that are available. If the bearings are dry, it adds drag to the motor, which increases the current draw. Given that the whole system is somewhat marginally designed for the available current, it can be important that the motor be rebuilt/greased/etc as well as the wiring cleaned up (soldered preferred) otherwise current draw can be excessive

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
However; the plug that goes into the fan gets very hot and eventually looks to melt and stop working.
I had this problem many years ago.I bought this 164 with this problem. And the decision was one:
-replace bearings
-solder the wires directly to the motor connector and install another connector for this line.

After that, a few more years passed, everything worked fine, but I bought 166 in order to rearrange the seats in 164. I found out that the fan is the same. Therefore, I have taken everything from 166.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 01:49 PM
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You could also look at after market more modern replacements; potentially with better shaped blades and more efficient motors - though there then becomes the question of correct fittings and connects etc. Personally am considering this and then dealing with the need to make any modifications. Depends on how much you like to plug and play or dare having to pull your hair out.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 02:32 PM
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Reminds me of Ben Hur, the galley scenes...normal speed and Ramming Speed....Ramming Speed!!!
an independent circuit and a big red light in the cabin... lights comes on, auto system failed, switch to manual override....switch car off..Now!

164LS 1994
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by richardbradford View Post
You could also look at after market more modern replacements; potentially with better shaped blades and more efficient motors - though there then becomes the question of correct fittings and connects etc. Personally am considering this and then dealing with the need to make any modifications. Depends on how much you like to plug and play or dare having to pull your hair out.
My mechanic actually tried putting in an aftermarket fan. He went as far as to modify and mount it in the existing shroud. However it turned out that the fan was not strong enough to remove the heat from the radiator. It had an air volume rating that should have been sufficient, but it turned out that it was not able to keep the car from overheating while idling in +100 F (+40 C) temperatures here in Texas. So my advise is to seek out guidance from others who have done this if possible. Maybe Jason or DeFatta Brothers or some of the other Alfa suppliers? We ended up rebuilding the existing fan and sticking it back in the car.

Regards.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 04:56 PM
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Out of curiosity, what are the flow rates of the standard fans for 164s?
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 09:05 PM
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CFM but also look at static pressure

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Out of curiosity, what are the flow rates of the standard fans for 164s?
On a 1969 Maserati Ghibli I ran into problems choosing the wrong 16" Spal fan.

My requirements were low profile, high airflow, 12volt and 16". There was a choice of straight-blade or curved-blade, with no difference in CFM I chose the straight blade.

The problem was the noise, it sounded like an air-raid warning at every traffic light in summer. Therefore I swapped it out for the identical CFM curved blade model - somewhat quieter, but the car overheated and burped a pint of coolant at the top of the steep hill I live on.

I called SPAL and finally found the right guy, who explained... that the straight-blade model has higher static pressure performance (despite identical CFM) and is thus able to push air through a dense radiator/condenser sandwich. I reverted to the straight-bladed model and all was well (apart from the siren)

I sold the car that way - still have the curved-blade version hanging from the garage ceiling - I'd try it in the 164 but it's a pusher not a puller.

-Richard
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 07:02 AM
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GTV67 - I seem to recall that my mechanic had installed one of those curved blade style fans when we went the aftermarket route. It just did not have enough capacity as a puller fan. After he made the swap back to the OEM fan, he said he had installed two of those type fans on a Ferrari 400 a few months ago and was concerned about it also overheating. However that is a "pusher" fan design and it had two of them, so maybe it worked out in the long run.

Thanks for piping in on this. I learned something.

Cheers,

Jeff
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