My "new" 164S is confusing me... - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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My "new" 164S is confusing me...

Sorting out a '91 164S that I just picked up with 47K miles and many tough jobs completed (timing belt, stepper motors!) but I am totally confused by a few electrical gremlins. This is my fifth 164 over the years and one to likely keep so want to be careful about problem resolution, so your ideas are welcome.

In short, only the driver's window operates properly. All others do not. So, I went about trying to figure out what to replace.

There are four individual switches with male contacts and four individual connectors with female contacts, as I am sure you know. The only combination that operates the window fully (up/down) is Left Front switch to Left Front connector. All others do not work, i.e. RF/LRF/RR. So I did an exhaustive test:

Switch - Connector - Result

LF - LF - Works
RF - RF - Clicks on window up, but thatís about it
LR - LR - Clicks on window up, but thatís about it
RR - RR - Clicks on window up, but thatís about it

So, thatís our baseline

RF - LF - Left front window operates normally
LR - LF - Left front window operates normally
RR - LF - Left front window operates normally

This confirms that all switches operate normally as they can all operate the front window

So, here is where it gets interesting...

LF - RF - Right front window operates normally
LF - LR - Left rear window operates normally
LF - RR - Right rear window operates normally

I.e. all windows operate normally

The above tests verify that all switches and all windows operate. They are just not doing so when placed in their matching pairs (with the exception of the LF window). Whaaaaaa? Could it be that the positioning of the contacts over time has resulted in this poorly functioning setup?

Thank you in advance!

Alfista164
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 12:09 PM
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As for rear windows there is a lock out child safety switch bar B25 in center console does that work?

Also 7.5A F11 fuse in G1 main fuse box and two 30A fuses in center console under the carpeted coin box by parking brake

As for R/F window check 30A F18 fuse in G1 main fuse box.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Alfisto Steve - I should have mentioned that indeed all fuses are good, and indeed they would have to be if all windows operate, albeit with the wrong switch.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfista164 View Post
Thanks Alfisto Steve - I should have mentioned that indeed all fuses are good, and indeed they would have to be if all windows operate, albeit with the wrong switch.
So you are saying all windows will operate if you plug in driver door window switch into other 3 window connectors one at a time? Then trying all 3 other window switches in driver's connecter it will work, too?

That defies logic if after that exercise other windows still won't work unless driver's door switch is used for them.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 06-21-2019 at 01:43 PM.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Sigh... that's exactly why I am scratching my head, and trust me, there is not much left up there!
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 09:21 PM
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The wiring for the drivers window is different from the other 3 so that the drivers window can have the express down function.
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Tom Henneka
75 Alfetta GT (Original owner), 92 164S, 86 GTV6
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Drawing a blank still - maybe the age is catching up... so please break this down for me. How would that enable the other three windows to function with the driver's window switch? Are you saying that the switch itself is also different and somehow gets the windows to work whereas the assigned switches are missing something to have the same effect?
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 10:20 AM
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All the window switches in the front center console are the same.

Now have you tired the open the rear windows with the switches in rear doors? Again the rear window interlock safety switch in center console must be locked down.

It still defies logic to me on how you can make all the windows work one at a time by plugging in L/F window switch into other window wiring sockets in center console and all the other switches with work L/F testing them when plugged into L/F window wiring socket but won't work any of the other three windows.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 11:06 AM
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Who's on first?
No, what's on first. Who's on 2nd? I dunno.
The description of the problem and suggestions has left me confused as well.
I have a 95 ls and this console is not the same as the earlier models but...
Please note that you have, on the center console, a lockout switch and 4 window switches and door lock. The window harness will have larger red wires and the switches are specific to those main harness connectors. The door one will not have the large red wire. The 2 under for the rear windows may be different, I am not certain although I also read that all 4 switches are the same. PERHAPS ADD AN image of the placement of your switches (bottom side) and that may help. Check to see if the connectors have been twisted and are being installed in the wrong order. not sure if this will help at all but seems a quick way to check.

Best of luck.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 06:42 PM
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When I first acquired my 164 several years ago, the front windows worked, and the rears did not. I found that if I plugged the rear switches into the drivers window position (connector), the drivers window would function. The reason for this is that the wiring for the drivers window is different, and the various switch contacts perform different functions in this particular position.

I sorted everything out by partially disassembling the rear switches (not easy) and spraying contact cleaner into them.

Tom Henneka
75 Alfetta GT (Original owner), 92 164S, 86 GTV6
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 08:40 PM
Del
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I used the rear window cutout switch for operating the electric ball valve in the heater line, this so that the a/c will work better, not having hot coolant running through the hvac system all the time.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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