Any difference in exhaust pipes by year? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Any difference in exhaust pipes by year?

My pipes while not leaking are REALLY rotten around the joints. On ebay someone has a nice downpipe and also cat and the pipe behind the cat for a 94-95 164L. It LOOKS the same as on my 91 S, is it the same? I figure if I buy those I can then just build the rest with a vibrant resonator and Borla muffler and get to the sound I want on this car.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 01:48 PM
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My pipes while not leaking are REALLY rotten around the joints. On ebay someone has a nice downpipe and also cat and the pipe behind the cat for a 94-95 164L. It LOOKS the same as on my 91 S, is it the same? I figure if I buy those I can then just build the rest with a vibrant resonator and Borla muffler and get to the sound I want on this car.
I would have to see the listing to see what you are talking about as there isn't a 164L model in 94-95. I only see a 91-93 164L set of downpipes and cat on ebay.

94-95 models 164LS/Q have 24v engines with SS headers (will not fit 12v engines), larger down pipes than 164S, different cat, different center muffler.

That being said if they are selling the complete 24v two downpipes, cat and center muffler you could cut your front flanges off your S downpipes and the 24v ones and weld S flanges on 24v pipes.


Now if they are selling 91-93 164L down pipes, cat and center muffler you could use that set up on 164S but down pipes and cat smaller diameter. You have to use L cat with L center muffler and L down pipes.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
My pipes while not leaking are REALLY rotten around the joints. On ebay someone has a nice downpipe and also cat and the pipe behind the cat for a 94-95 164L. It LOOKS the same as on my 91 S, is it the same? I figure if I buy those I can then just build the rest with a vibrant resonator and Borla muffler and get to the sound I want on this car.
I see the ones on ebay. Nothing you want. Cat is aftermarket which typically don't work well. Flex pipes look ok.

I have downpipes and a S cat if interested USED and it good condition. You can build from cat back.

Let me know?

BTW no such thing as a 94-95 164L. Either LS/Super or Q/QV 24V.

1991-1993 164B/L has one style exhaust
1991-1993 164S has two different styles, one is early which sits lower, and later which sits higher due to different flex pipes.
1994-1995(98')164LS/Super and Q/QV have same exhaust system but with different tail ends.


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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah these are what I'm talking about:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/exhaust-3-0...L/264305109959

https://www.ebay.com/itm/exhaust-3-0...l/264305112547

Was hoping to offer the guy 200 bucks for everything and hope for the best since that stuffs been up there for a long time. Just went with what was in the ad.

But yeah I took a look under my car again today and noticed the part by the cat is significantly different. My manifolds are ok I think but from there on there is nothing salvageable, the flanges are all held together by rust, if you were to try and take them apart they would crumble.

Replacing a catalytic converter in NY is a pain in the ***. Technically installing a used one is illegal. No shop will touch it, so what I'd need to do is remove my rotten exhaust, install this, and then head to the shop with no pipe/muffler. Was hoping to get something I could go to the shop with for them to install but it looks like it would need to be brand new. Need to talk to the guys doing my exhaust to see whats most cost effective.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 03:52 AM
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Yeah these are what I'm talking about:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/exhaust-3-0...L/264305109959

https://www.ebay.com/itm/exhaust-3-0...l/264305112547

Those are from a 1991 164L. In addition to using them on an S it would be nice to have the front mounting bracket for the cat from the 164L as it is different from the larger 164S cat mounting system. The 164S uses spring mounting system instead of the two rubber rings.

Also as you can see the L cat has single outlet whereas the 164S has dual.

The L uses two copper gaskets for cat. Front one hard to find. The S uses two in front and two in rear also hard to find.

Longer downpipes are for 91-93 164B/L whereas shorter ones w/fatter flex pipes are for 164S.

gasket info:
164B/L/S manifold to heads copper gaskets {not shown) are 60506636

164B/L/S down pipe gaskets 60510306 Centerline TH416

164S front cat gaskets 82473214 2 each
164S rear cat gaskets L/H 82473321 R/H steel ring 82420455

164B/L frt cat gsk 60510307 one-piece copper
164 B/L rear cat gasket copper 60510816

164B/L/S/LS/Q rear muffler gasket 82407174 large steel ring
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 06-03-2019 at 05:55 AM.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 06:33 AM
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Alfa 164S front down pipes and gaskets.
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
Yeah these are what I'm talking about:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/exhaust-3-0...L/264305109959

https://www.ebay.com/itm/exhaust-3-0...l/264305112547

Was hoping to offer the guy 200 bucks for everything and hope for the best since that stuffs been up there for a long time. Just went with what was in the ad.

But yeah I took a look under my car again today and noticed the part by the cat is significantly different. My manifolds are ok I think but from there on there is nothing salvageable, the flanges are all held together by rust, if you were to try and take them apart they would crumble.

Replacing a catalytic converter in NY is a pain in the ***. Technically installing a used one is illegal. No shop will touch it, so what I'd need to do is remove my rotten exhaust, install this, and then head to the shop with no pipe/muffler. Was hoping to get something I could go to the shop with for them to install but it looks like it would need to be brand new. Need to talk to the guys doing my exhaust to see whats most cost effective.
Yup those. Aftermarket CAT and flex pipes look ok.


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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
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Wow thanks for all the info and pics!

Very interesting, the listings changed overnight. I am 100% sure yesterday both said 1994-1995.

So the question now is, lets say I get these for $200, are they worth getting over having something made even from the manifolds back. The mounting on mine to the car is pretty rotten and horrifying too, so I'd need to replace that as well. In that case a custom piece with mounting may be preferable, especially if these gaskets are NLA. The L pipes look a little smaller?

I can't believe how many little things are different between the L and the S despite them having basically the same engine. How did these guys ever make a profit?

So whats the better route?

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 09:51 AM
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If you go this route I have a front mounting bracket for cat (B or L) that's listed on AlfaBB classifieds. It's in solid condition.

white '92 164 S (71K)
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 11:33 AM
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If you go this route I have a front mounting bracket for cat (B or L) that's listed on AlfaBB classifieds. It's in solid condition.
I could supply the two new L cat front 60510307 and rear 60510816 copper gaskets.

NOTE: the center L muffler (not shown) with one outlet to match L cat is different from the 164S. The S ctr muffler has two inlets. All the B/L/S/LS/Q ctr ones have same rear outlet flared with steel sealing ring.

Is your S center muffler bad, too?

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
Wow thanks for all the info and pics!

Very interesting, the listings changed overnight. I am 100% sure yesterday both said 1994-1995.

So the question now is, lets say I get these for $200, are they worth getting over having something made even from the manifolds back. The mounting on mine to the car is pretty rotten and horrifying too, so I'd need to replace that as well. In that case a custom piece with mounting may be preferable, especially if these gaskets are NLA. The L pipes look a little smaller?

I can't believe how many little things are different between the L and the S despite them having basically the same engine. How did these guys ever make a profit?

So whats the better route?
If your front S downpipes, and cat are bad those 164L ebay ones maybe the way to go. but you will need L center muffler to match cat. LS/Q center muffler does not match L cat.

I have the front end single inlet flange with about 12" from a L center muffler.

I also do have a new 164B/L center muffler being held in reserve for my 164L that maybe you could twist my arm to let it go.

Note the current "center" muffler listed on ebay in picture is NOT really a center one. It is really a B/L Ansa AR8107 rear muffler according to picture. It would work on your 164S but has single outlet.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 06-03-2019 at 12:46 PM.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 12:43 PM
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if your'e interested, get me part numbers for what you need and I'll go see Eddy. You have my email. ciao, chris
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alfisto Steve View Post
I could supply the two new L cat front 60510307 and rear 60510816 copper gaskets.

NOTE: the center L muffler (not shown) with one outlet to match L cat is different from the 164S. The S ctr muffler has two inlets. All the B/L/S/LS/Q ctr ones have same rear outlet flared with steel sealing ring.

Is your S center muffler bad, too?
Everything is bad.

I mean its functional and not leaking now, but its on borrowed time. Every joint is pure rot and not coming apart without cutting and never going back together. Even the joints at the manifolds, but my hope is at least the manifold studs can be salvaged, otherwise I will need to replace those too which I'm sure would be a nightmare. Thats why I'm almost thinking since I really need to replace all of it, maybe custom from the manifolds on is the way to go. 2 into 1 aftermarket cat, vibrant resonator in stock location, and then the Borla boomer muffler. My only issue then is I need a knockout from a rear bumper like the passenger side to stick into the notch in the drivers side as the tips won't line up.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 01:19 PM
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When you make up your mind let us know.

Manifold studs will come out with heat and if sheared off you can weld a steel rod/bolt onto them and use torch to heat manifold so you can extract them. we have done lots of them.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 06-03-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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When you make up your mind let us know.

Manifold studs will come out with heat and if sheared off you can weld a steel rod/bolt onto them and use torch to heat manifold so you can extract them. we have done lots of them.
Good to know. I think I am going to hold off until I can get the car to the exhaust shop and show them since everything from the cat back will need to be custom anyway, see what they think. Also same regarding NY and its stupid restrictive emissions laws that make doing this an added pain.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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