Brake Hard Line Rub and Leak - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Brake Hard Line Rub and Leak

Developed a leak today in the right rear hard line. Looks like it's been rubbing on the fuel filler pipe for quite some time. You might want to check your car to make sure you don't have the same rub.

Search revealed these NAPA items to replace the line:
12mm union #641-3377
10mm union #641-5021
Piping (Copper-Nickle) 3/16" #641-3347

I guess the copper-nickle is DOT approved for braking system and is easy to work with. Anybody confirm the parts above and the use of the copper-nickle brake line? My first time replacing hard lines.
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John Stewart
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Last edited by Roadtrip; 04-04-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 05:03 AM
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I think that Dean Russell in Dearborn, MI has those lines already made up using that material. 313-561-3327
http://trailalfaromeo.com/ [email protected]
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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I'm going to give it a try to make one myself. The bugaboo is getting the flare tube nuts broke loose.

I'm going to replace the rear calipers as well. O'Reilly's has them on their website, "if available." I'll check today at the store to see if indeed they can get them. I believe they're pretty generic Girling units, so I'm hoping they can.

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 10:41 AM
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I'm doing my whole car in copper-nickel. Be careful bending it as its a bit softer than steel, easier to bend but easier to mess up. That said it also doesn't corrode like steel lines do. Hence worth doing my car with it.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 11:39 AM
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Rear calipers are getting harder to find. RockAuto sometimes list them, but be careful they're for the right model and stocked in NA. Also, check Centric (?) Website.

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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I got O'Reilly's check with corporate now for availability. Like $80 each if they're available.

I just ordered a right rear from Rock Auto since they said they had it in stock. $67 + $25 core.

Since the tube nut at the proportioning system valve body is bitchin' stuck, I may cut the old pipe and put a union in there, then run the new line up to the new caliper. Getting the tube nut off the caliper may be a problem, but at least I can do it on the bench.

John Stewart
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Last edited by Roadtrip; 04-05-2019 at 02:06 PM.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 03:53 PM
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Glad you found it. When I started having trouble finding them, I started keeping a set on my shelf.

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 01:01 AM
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I changed all the brake lines on BB2 during rehab in 2011. It came to me with R/R rusted and grimped off with vise grips. Pino gave me a good line for that R/R position. Gave one to my bud when his R/R rusted. I had to replace same line on BB4. I got one NOS spare left I got from Dean.

As for brake calipers, I also saved a couple new ones. Most are rebuilt ones but I have one new rear one can't remember what side though.

These and brake line and one new master made it to FL with me.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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I got a RR caliper on order from Rock Auto (about $70) and a LR caliper from NAPA on order for $120. Both are rebuilds. We'll see what actually come in. The NAPA guy said their rebuilds come directly from the rebuilder in Philly and that he had 28 in stock. $27 core charge. I may keep 'em and try rebuilding them myself since the rebuild kits are cheap.

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 07:38 PM
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As I learned with my Saab 9000 rebuilt calipers are often just a fluff n buff job. Cleaned up with new seals but no attention to the metal bits. If the core calipers sent back for rebuild are worn out the rebuilt version will also be worn out. Just sayin'.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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I'll let you know what my experience is with them.

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
As I learned with my Saab 9000 rebuilt calipers are often just a fluff n buff job. Cleaned up with new seals but no attention to the metal bits. If the core calipers sent back for rebuild are worn out the rebuilt version will also be worn out. Just sayin'.
Think that is the case with a lot of refurbished items. With brake calipers it is usually just the seals that need changing anyway and as long as the rest of the unit is in good condition mechanically can't see there being any issue with this. Surely if they arrive and look rubbish you would just send them back?

With 164 calipers one of the biggest issues I've seen is getting the right diameter pistons. The rears were originally 36mm but later cars were upgraded to 38mm - a worth while increase but one not listed on a lot of systems. As with all Alfa (164 especially due to rarity) purchases it is important to either buy from an Alfa nut, like Steve at Alfissimo, or to seriously cross-reference all details before purchase. Just my thoughts.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Managed to get the RR caliper off the car, along with the broken hard line. Getting the tube nut out of the proportion valve body was a chore. Moderate heat a few times, then shock cooling with CRC "Freeze-Off." Even then I had to cut the line to be able to turn the tube nut, which finally came out with vice grips and destroying the flats. And this was after a couple days of soaking in penetrating oil. Just worked the nut back and force slightly while advancing.

Now, for replacing the hard line. NAPA has hard lines with bubble flares on each end, but with 3/8" tube nuts, which are almost 10mm but not quite. I need a 36" length, but the next avail size is 40". Looks like I'm going to have to get a couple of 10mm tube nuts and take it to a machine shop to bubble flare it. I can't find a tool locally to do a bubble.

I got a double flare kit from NAPA thinking I would just splice in a section, but the NAPA tool had a defective die with an oblong recess and would not make a symmetrical flare. Went to exchange it and all the rest of the stock had the same defect.

This is turning into something a lot harder than it should be.

John Stewart
74 Spider
91 164S

Last edited by Roadtrip; 04-15-2019 at 07:48 PM.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
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The 3/8" tube nuts are deceptively close to 10mm ones. They will actually screw into a 10mm fitting but are loose until beginning to seat, so don't be fooled. Even my old 10mm tube nuts are a little loose going into the flexible hose fitting, but are a better fit and should seat tight.

Key point here is that 3/8" and 10mm are close but are NOT interchangable.

However, 3/8" tubing is the same as 4.75mm tubing and that is interchangable. I had originally planned on using copper nickle tubing, but that is not avail here in anything less than 25' rolls, while the steel alloy is. The steel alloy is fine and easily to form from my experience so far.

Off to the machine shop now to see get some 10mm fittings and see if they are able to put a bubble flare on the line.

BTW, here's a picture of the bad line. Looks like a rust-through rather than a rub after all.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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I replaced the entire hard line, flexible hose, and caliper today. I'll write up a guide on it.

Unfortunately, I now have an anti-skid light, most likely from disturbing the wiring to the wheel sensor. Will try and run that down tomorrow. Anti-Skid light only comes on after the car moves.

John Stewart
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