Yellow Speed Racing Coil Over Kit - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-19-2018, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Yellow Speed Racing Coil Over Kit

So the coil over kit has arrived. I wish I could tell you how they drive but it looks like I won't be working on the car till late October or early November at best. Here is their website https://yellowspeedracingusa.com/ however the kit is not listed you need to call or email to order it.

Anyway first some pictures:









Front mounting bracket:



Rear Mounting bracket:



So the first thing you may notice is no camber plates. I was under the impression this kit did have them, however in reading their site closely it says "most kits" have camber plates. I'm not sure but I guess its possible their plate design doesn't fit the top of the tower well. I'm not totally bummed about this but I did email them to see whats up. The second thing to know is to adjust the ride height your are adjusting the lower mount. On the front this is no big deal as the top of the strut has a spherical bearing so you can just turn in the mount once the lock ring is released. In the rear though you will need to unbolt the top and rotate it to get to your desired height. Obviously you're not doing this daily or even yearly, but it makes the ride height setting process a bit tedious.

The dampers have 33 adjustment points. They give you some baseline starting points in the manual. They are adjusted via removable knobs that insert into the top of the strut. You can feel a good click between each adjustment point. Overall the build quality seems solid and just as nice as my ST Suspension (KW Suspension's lower end brand) coilover kit on my race car. they are definitely beefier, they weigh more but I can attribute that to the mounts which are thicker heavier metal than the ST kit which is stamped. The coloring is a bit gaudy but honestly you're never going to see them so whatever.

Each kit is built to order so they take some time to get, I ordered this kit August 27th and it arrived today September 19th. Anyway let me know if you have any questions or want me to take more pics of specific parts.
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-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 05:42 AM
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Do these have any safety ratings like TUV approvals?
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
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Do these have any safety ratings like TUV approvals?
No, in fact the first page of the manual says multiple times "for off road use only". I will say I searched quite a bit and couldn't find a bad word said about these kits, only happy customers and no failures.

I got an answer back from them regarding the camber plates and they said according to the design spec for the 164 it doesn't spec it with a camber plate, he said he can follow up with the engineers but most likely its due to fitment and suspension geometry, so maybe theres not enough room in the tower for the strut to move within its full camber range safely as well as turn, or maybe the hole in the top of the strut tower doesn't have room for the adjusters. Who knows, I'm fine with it.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 06:16 AM
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Not much you can do with a camber plate on these cars due to angle of upper mounting and angle of front fender. If you move out the top of the wheel for some positive camber it sticks out of the wheel well. I can adjust mine about 5mm max for a little less camber or throw it back to stock position which I have done. We have discussed slotting holes for a long time here and it can help with slight adjustment but nothing drastic. There would have to be some adjustment at the lower mounting for the camber plate to work and still be within alignment spec but even then it wouldn't.


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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 06:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Not much you can do with a camber plate on these cars due to angle of upper mounting and angle of front fender. If you move out the top of the wheel for some positive camber it sticks out of the wheel well. I can adjust mine about 5mm max for a little less camber or throw it back to stock position which I have done. We have discussed slotting holes for a long time here and it can help with slight adjustment but nothing drastic. There would have to be some adjustment at the lower mounting for the camber plate to work and still be within alignment spec but even then it wouldn't.
Ok then that makes a lot of sense as to why they wouldn't include a camber plate then.

The only other thing is how the tops of the rear struts mount there isn't much room to be able to insert and remove the adjuster knob. I may just leave them in and put some tape over the top to hold it in there. Also the stock boot will probably hold it in place as well.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 08:13 AM
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I'm glad that, at last, someone is taking the leap (be the guinea pig) to experiment with a coil-over system. The units look really well built and designed. It remains to be seen whether you'll have full functionality (you already touched on some of the problems) and whether the ride will be acceptable. I don't know exactly what your objective is (racing?, street?), or the roads you drive on, but it strikes me given the short small-diameter springs that the manufacturer's disclaimer "for off-road use" might be exactly what you get. I have a car (Lotus 7) that I get seat-of-the-pants performance on a very tight suspension, and another (Alfa 164S) that provides a very different and agreeable ride, driving roles/experiences I would not like to reverse.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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I'm glad that, at last, someone is taking the leap (be the guinea pig) to experiment with a coil-over system. The units look really well built and designed. It remains to be seen whether you'll have full functionality (you already touched on some of the problems) and whether the ride will be acceptable. I don't know exactly what your objective is (racing?, street?), or the roads you drive on, but it strikes me given the short small-diameter springs that the manufacturer's disclaimer "for off-road use" might be exactly what you get. I have a car (Lotus 7) that I get seat-of-the-pants performance on a very tight suspension, and another (Alfa 164S) that provides a very different and agreeable ride, driving roles/experiences I would not like to reverse.
Objective is a fun street car, lower than stock, something I can carry the family in that is still kind of racey, without being a $90k AMG benz lol. That said I'd prefer to lean towards comfortable than punishing. I am hoping by going conservative on the dampner settings I can dial out the harshness somewhat of the setup. If this setup didn't have adjustable dampners I may not have gone for it simply because it would probably be way more aggressive than I'd want. Unfortunately many of the roads here in NY are awful. And every time they fix them up, they do it as cheaply as possible and the first snow storm destroys them.

The rear strut tops do have a hardened rubber bushing inside the aluminum mount, but the fronts with their spherical bearing are solid, so thats another spot where I may encounter additional harshness. Right now other than trying to build your own with modifying stock parts this is the only game in town for coil overs for this car. There is a set available on eBay but its not much cheaper and its from an unknown manufacturer in China. There was an American manufacturer AMR Engineering that had a beautiful set similar to these, however they seem to have gone out of business.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 09:57 AM
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Here is a good video of the manufacturing process.



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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 10:37 AM
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Strange graph from that Roehrig tester in this clip, a little hard to read the figures. Compared to OEM Boge CDS struts: while compression looks about right (4x stronger???), rebound (2x harder???) has no "knee" that accounts for normal spring rebound.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 10:38 AM
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These are very interesting, but I can just imagine the cost. I do wonder what you will gain, and lose, in using these, since the OEM S struts work well, and can be rebuilt. Time will tell after you have had a chance to try them out.

"The only other thing is how the tops of the rear struts mount there isn't much room to be able to insert and remove the adjuster knob"

It is tight. The aftermarket adjustable rear Konis leave just enough room at the top for the adjuster knob.

Del

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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These are very interesting, but I can just imagine the cost. I do wonder what you will gain, and lose, in using these, since the OEM S struts work well, and can be rebuilt. Time will tell after you have had a chance to try them out.

"The only other thing is how the tops of the rear struts mount there isn't much room to be able to insert and remove the adjuster knob"

It is tight. The aftermarket adjustable rear Konis leave just enough room at the top for the adjuster knob.
Cost wise the set was only $880 shipped to my door, so less than the cost of 1 new electronic Boge, or 4 new L struts.

Unfortunately considering the collapse I had last week I would not spend the time or money to rebuild my struts and I'm glad I didn't, they are rotten. If the OEM struts are in good shape it probably is worth it to do if you're not looking to lower the car. But if you need to replace parts this becomes more worth it.

I've read folks with these on other cars compliment them on their ride quality. That said people have different expectations of a Ford Focus or a Honda Accord than an Alfa 164. But their home site shows many installs on BMWs and Mercedes so I'd imagine someone must be happy with them on luxury cars.
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 03:58 PM
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Ok, waiting to hear of your driving impressions, esp if you can more or less successfully match the existing front to rear shock/spring rates within reason. Price sounds reasonable. Same price as I paid for the adjustable Konis when they were available. Might be the way to go if the OEM strut mountings are rusted out. And, new OEM S shocks are no longer available as well, and were ridiculously astronomic in price.

Of course, you could lower the car by just changing springs in the existing struts if they were good.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-20-2018, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, waiting to hear of your driving impressions, esp if you can more or less successfully match the existing front to rear shock/spring rates within reason. Price sounds reasonable. Same price as I paid for the adjustable Konis when they were available. Might be the way to go if the OEM strut mountings are rusted out. And, new OEM S shocks are no longer available as well, and were ridiculously astronomic in price.

Of course, you could lower the car by just changing springs in the existing struts if they were good.
That was the original plan, either rebuild mine or find a way to use a cartridge insert Koni. Spitfire and i were discussing it but then this came up and I went for it.

I'm excited to drive them but it doesn't look like I will have this together till sometime in November.... I hope.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 09-24-2018, 07:55 AM Thread Starter
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Coil over kit availability update.

So before finding this kit I had found another one from a company called AMR Engineering (yes the URL strangely says acura TL but its right):

https://amrengineering.com/product/1...ing-coilovers/

I had emailed them twice with no answer. Tried to call multiple times over a 2 week period and their phone was busy all the time. Then I went to social media and sent them a message on Facebook. No answer to anything (this was almost 2 months ago). Looking through their social media it was extremely active right up until early February then completely dead, with some folks complaining of unshipped product and lost deposits. There was a cryptic post about a death in their family at that time, but that was it. At this point I was frustrated at how hard it was to give this guy money for product with him having to do no work for it whatsoever, I said screw it and started exploring other avenues.

At 1 AM today I got a message through Facebook:

Quote:
We had issues with our phone system which have been resolved. Rarely have time to get on FB and we have blockrd it at our workplace due to employees going on FB and Instagram too much. Feel free to email us at [email protected] as it's our primary communication. We can be reached by our 1800 number as well. Good day!
Honestly sounds like BS to me. How many employees could he possibly have (making custom suspensions to order with a 2 week lead time) that he has to go so far as to block that stuff on his internet. And suddenly he goes from super active on SM to nothing for months. I don't know if the guy had some family issues going on or whatever, but considering there were some people left in the lurch here, I wouldn't be so inclined to send this guy $1600 to get a suspension set built.

Still in the interest of full disclosure I'm providing the info here anyway in case someone wants a US built set of coil overs over one built in Taiwan. Keep in mind also it says "assembled in the USA" . I'm thinking he gets the dampers from somewhere else (maybe even Yellow Speed!), and only makes the tops and bases. They look fully threaded similar to the yellow speed ones, but use a lock screw on the spring perch instead of a lock ring. I personally prefer the lock ring as it can be torqued down with a torque wrench, but I have no basis not to trust the lock screw, I've never had a failure there.
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 04:25 PM
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fyi, another thread with similar coil-over aspirations: (zoom ahead to post #10)

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...eaf-plans.html

My 2 cents: height is the easy thing, but ride, high-speed reliability/performance, & endurance is quite another. My stock CDS struts, now 26 year old, are amazing.

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