Brake/Suspension Rebuild - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 13Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #16 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-22-2018, 08:24 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
jc96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Casarsa Della Delizia Italy
Posts: 4,747
Garage
The Reds are too much for the street. I personally have settled on Ferodo DS2500 and am very happy with them. Brake dust isn't a terrible issue for me thus not my first consideration when I select a pad. Believe it or not, there are 2 different rotor thicknesses listed for our 4 bangers. I think because one of the 4 bangers is a turbo. IIRC, didn't Chaz try an all poly set up at some point? Might wanna push his buttons and see.

Might wanna pick Johns brain about the rear strut bolts as well. Apparently they can be quite a PITA to get out. Something about rust..... The bolts are available as NOS over here last time I looked. Ciao, chris

Maintaining my tenuous strain on reality.
89 164 2l Twin Spark, 2011 Tonka Dump

Recently added: an 89 75 (Milano) 1.6 litre w/44K on the klok.

Past loves:
79 Alfetta GTV w/Spica, my 1st Alfa

An 88 Graduate. Not really love but interesting nonetheless.

A 68 BMW 1602 - man do I regret letting that one go!

79 Scirroco, ex plowed into an illegally parked house with it...
jc96 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-22-2018, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 307
@Alfissimo Int. - I hear you on the pads, I see the ATE pads on your site and thinking about it, while it will likely be YEARS before I wear them out, would be nice to have the electrical pad sensors work so I will probably go that route. Yellowspeed is http://www.yellowspeedracingusa.com . I had first come across them doing some yahoo searches. Originally I found AMR Engineering which also makes a beautiful set of coilovers, but they seem to have gone out of business as of January. Anyway the Yellowspeed ones looked kind of ricer to be honest with the coloring, and that they were made in Taiwan I initially dismissed them. But in doing more research, and seeing that my chances of finding a set of Konis is a shot in the dark I decided to research them a bit more. I have been pouring over forum posts, social media, etc, and have yet to find a bad review. Everyone who has used them said they were great, better quality than anything else in their price range, etc. The only bad reviews were from people who didn't even own them but assumed they were bad because they were made in Taiwan. They don't list the 164 on their site but I had found them on a foreign website so I contacted them and they said they could get them, since every set is custom made. So I will be the guinea pig. They are quite adjustable, so I'll be able to get the ride height I want, and hopefully get the shocks to a good setting between comfort and sportiness. And they have camber plates, so I can adjust down the camber from stock a bit. I have the tools at home to do an alignment, so I'll try a few things maybe. The spring rates are 560/225.

Do you sell the steel braided lines? I found them at my Stoptech dealer, but if you have them of course I'd go to you.

Regarding the bushings which @Richard2 mentioned as well, I hear you guys and being that its a street car and will likely never see the track, I agree and will be going all rubber. My race car is all solid, poly, or delrin. You'd be surprised how smooth it is, but relative to a normal car, its a mess, and i do want the family to go out and enjoy this car with me, so it needs to skirt the line between racey and comfortable. I think the exhaust will cover the racey part pretty well, also the coilovers can always add to that a bit. The car will be lower and have 17 inch wheels (eventually). My crossmember is quite rusty I was going to pull it and clean it up and paint it, assuming its not starting to rot. Otherwise may need to take you up on that. As for the engine bushings I think one or more may be beat up but thats a project for a later date.

I'll try pressurizing the brake system, been there done that. I actually have a Motive power bleeder I will be using. I think the adapter I have for VW for it, will fit this car as well.
@Spitfire thanks for all your help over email. You make a good point with the trailing arms, maybe better just getting the complete ones, as I'd need to pay to get the bushings pressed in and also spend time cleaning the arms up and stuff. For 80 bucks each its worth it.

@Michael Smith - yeah I use Hawk HP Plus on my street cars and I find they work well all the time, Hawk does not make such pads (or any for that matter) for this car. I was looking for something similar, but i think the ATE Pad set Jason has will be fine and keep the brake sensors working too. On my race car I use Hawk Blue, excellent fade free pads, but yeah useless on the street, very dusty, and they work better on lighter vehicles.

@jc96 yeah my bolts are all nasty. I plan on soaking everything in PB Blaster for a few days, then bust out the impact gun if needed. Hopefully not.....

Ok so updated shopping list

Front Caliper rebuild kit x2
New Rear calipers x2 (or have them rebuilt)
Drilled brake rotors
ATE Brake Pads
Goodridge steel braided lines
Motul RBF600 (overkill I know but I have already for race car)
New complete Front control arms with balljoints
Poly Swaybar endlinks
Tie Rod Ends (if needed)
New trailing arms w/bushings
Rear tie bar bushings

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)

Last edited by Rogue Leader; 08-22-2018 at 08:54 PM.
Rogue Leader is offline  
post #18 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 06:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Posts: 2,684
Be aware that the wiring from the car to the pad wear sensor wire often breaks internally on these cars, especially right front. First symptom is flashing from the brake wear dash lights if you're lucky. Many of us just jumper the sensor wires and use our good old fashioned eyeball Mark I for brake wear sensing.
Del likes this.

1991 Alfa Romeo 164L 5 spd
White on grey leather 230K km, owned from new
Michael Smith is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 06:26 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Smith View Post
Be aware that the wiring from the car to the pad wear sensor wire often breaks internally on these cars, especially right front. First symptom is flashing from the brake wear dash lights if you're lucky. Many of us just jumper the sensor wires and use our good old fashioned eyeball Mark I for brake wear sensing.
Thanks for the tip. Mine seems to work right now as I don't get any dash light flashing. Either that or its already been bypassed!

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
Rogue Leader is offline  
post #20 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 06:58 AM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Alfissimo Int.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Leader View Post
@Alfissimo Int. - I hear you on the pads, I see the ATE pads on your site and thinking about it, while it will likely be YEARS before I wear them out, would be nice to have the electrical pad sensors work so I will probably go that route. Yellowspeed is http://www.yellowspeedracingusa.com . I had first come across them doing some yahoo searches. Originally I found AMR Engineering which also makes a beautiful set of coilovers, but they seem to have gone out of business as of January. Anyway the Yellowspeed ones looked kind of ricer to be honest with the coloring, and that they were made in Taiwan I initially dismissed them. But in doing more research, and seeing that my chances of finding a set of Konis is a shot in the dark I decided to research them a bit more. I have been pouring over forum posts, social media, etc, and have yet to find a bad review. Everyone who has used them said they were great, better quality than anything else in their price range, etc. The only bad reviews were from people who didn't even own them but assumed they were bad because they were made in Taiwan. They don't list the 164 on their site but I had found them on a foreign website so I contacted them and they said they could get them, since every set is custom made. So I will be the guinea pig. They are quite adjustable, so I'll be able to get the ride height I want, and hopefully get the shocks to a good setting between comfort and sportiness. And they have camber plates, so I can adjust down the camber from stock a bit. I have the tools at home to do an alignment, so I'll try a few things maybe. The spring rates are 560/225.

Do you sell the steel braided lines? I found them at my Stoptech dealer, but if you have them of course I'd go to you.
I am curious on this yellowspeed coil over. I like the idea of being able to adjust the car to my liking instead of a set lowering or stock height. I was thinking of making coilovers with my current koni's. this way I can pick the springs and adjust o my liking but then again this is a lot of work and I am looking at buying a Giulia Super in the near future (68-70).
Camber plates would be nice but camber on this car is very minimal in adjustment.

No on steel braided lines. I find them useless. I use to sell goodrich and never noticed a difference between OEM or steel braided. No difference in brake feel, in brake actuation or anything. I find them just for looks if you could even see them so IMO they are a waste of money. I removed mine and put OEM hoses back on and never looked back.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Jason Minos


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


New: +1 619-209-0715
e-mail:admin at alfissimo.com
San Diego, CA
1989 Spider Quad. Gone
1991 White Alfa Romeo 164S Recaro, Siena, Zender.-GONE
2010 Touareg TDI
2017 Giulia Ti Sport Q4, Trofeo, Leather package(red), Staggered.
Alfissimo Int. is online now  
post #21 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 07:01 AM
Registered User
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Southern CT
Posts: 1,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc96 View Post
Might wanna pick Johns brain about the rear strut bolts as well. Apparently they can be quite a PITA to get out. Something about rust..... The bolts are available as NOS over here last time I looked. Ciao, chris
For the long rear strut bolts through the hub assembly, use a strip of sandpaper or emory cloth to clean off corrosion on any of the bolt sections exposed through the hub assembly casting. That makes it much easier to drive them through. Impact gun is probably going to shear the head off.

I donít know if youíll run into this if youíre not changing the forward lateral arms, but if you need to get the long bolts completely out of the subframe, they may have been installed with the subframe as an assembly at the factory, and could be facing in a direction where they donít have clearance to pull out. You can cut them out and replace, or drop the whole subframe.

If for any reason you need to mess with the rear wheel speed sensors in the hub assembly, remove them gently. They could be pretty well stuck in there by now, and theyíre expensive and hard to find last I looked.

John
1991 Alfa Romeo 164L, 1993 Ford 5.0L Mustang
Spitfire is offline  
post #22 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfissimo Int. View Post
I am curious on this yellowspeed coil over. I like the idea of being able to adjust the car to my liking instead of a set lowering or stock height. I was thinking of making coilovers with my current koni's. this way I can pick the springs and adjust o my liking but then again this is a lot of work and I am looking at buying a Giulia Super in the near future (68-70).
Camber plates would be nice but camber on this car is very minimal in adjustment.

No on steel braided lines. I find them useless. I use to sell goodrich and never noticed a difference between OEM or steel braided. No difference in brake feel, in brake actuation or anything. I find them just for looks if you could even see them so IMO they are a waste of money. I removed mine and put OEM hoses back on and never looked back.
I will definitely post more about them once I have them in hand. I was discussing with John trying to build my own coilovers using old stock struts and various Koni inserts. I actually did build a set of coliovers for my old VW Fox race car which we used an adjustable spring perch from a miata, after cutting the stock perches off. it was a LOT of work and we had to custom make the strut tops to fit the 2.5" springs, then I got camber plates from Brazil which solved some of that issue. They worked well in the end but it was not a simple thing. I know stock this car is somewhere in the -2.5 range for camber which may be a bit much and contribute to increased tire wear. backing it down to -2.0 or -1.5 may help that without much loss in street handling.

I've never noticed a difference either with braided lines on the street, but they come from the mind of the racecar guy in me. They are ultra durable and so I feel if I'm taking it apart may as well put it back together with the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
For the long rear strut bolts through the hub assembly, use a strip of sandpaper or emory cloth to clean off corrosion on any of the bolt sections exposed through the hub assembly casting. That makes it much easier to drive them through. Impact gun is probably going to shear the head off.

I donít know if youíll run into this if youíre not changing the forward lateral arms, but if you need to get the long bolts completely out of the subframe, they may have been installed with the subframe as an assembly at the factory, and could be facing in a direction where they donít have clearance to pull out. You can cut them out and replace, or drop the whole subframe.

If for any reason you need to mess with the rear wheel speed sensors in the hub assembly, remove them gently. They could be pretty well stuck in there by now, and theyíre expensive and hard to find last I looked.
Do the forward lateral arms have bushings? I was planning to remove and clean them up, I know the nut side is facing the back of the car. I will probably end up dropping the subframe anyway to clean it up so this may not be an issue anyway. I haven't broken a bolt with the Impact gun in a while, its all about finesse

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
Rogue Leader is offline  
post #23 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 08:22 AM
Registered User
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Southern CT
Posts: 1,752
Yes, they have bushings. Those arms are a bit pricey new. But if youíre awesome like this guy, you can find a way to replace anything.
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164...ntrol-arm.html

See how they look. Maybe the bushings are good, as long as the bolt isnít seized in the sleeve.

Good luck with the impact gun.

John
1991 Alfa Romeo 164L, 1993 Ford 5.0L Mustang
Spitfire is offline  
post #24 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Yes, they have bushings. Those arms are a bit pricey new. But if youíre awesome like this guy, you can find a way to replace anything.
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164...ntrol-arm.html

See how they look. Maybe the bushings are good, as long as the bolt isnít seized in the sleeve.

Good luck with the impact gun.
Ah ok, that looks like its the only set of bushings that I can't seem to find anywhere. Centerline lists the arms at $83/ea but out of stock.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
Rogue Leader is offline  
post #25 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 08:47 AM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Alfissimo Int.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
Yes, they have bushings. Those arms are a bit pricey new. But if you’re awesome like this guy, you can find a way to replace anything.
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164...ntrol-arm.html

See how they look. Maybe the bushings are good, as long as the bolt isn’t seized in the sleeve.

Good luck with the impact gun.
I have the bushings available but they are in the adjustable end rods. Same deal.



What I like about OEM is they are probably tougher than steel braided. Infact the OEM lines have a steel/nylon braid in them. The lines are very short as well which I see no improvement from SS. Maybe a longer run line might take advantage of SS but all lines on the car are 10-12 inches.

Remember, "race" parts like poly and steel braided brake lines require constant maintenance or inspection and most of the time wear out much quicker than OEM. You can use them of course but I'd hate to do bushings or brake lines over again anytime soon. I rather drive.

I like what this guy has to say about it.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Jason Minos


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


New: +1 619-209-0715
e-mail:admin at alfissimo.com
San Diego, CA
1989 Spider Quad. Gone
1991 White Alfa Romeo 164S Recaro, Siena, Zender.-GONE
2010 Touareg TDI
2017 Giulia Ti Sport Q4, Trofeo, Leather package(red), Staggered.

Last edited by Alfissimo Int.; 08-23-2018 at 09:21 AM.
Alfissimo Int. is online now  
post #26 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfissimo Int. View Post
I have the bushings available but they are in the adjustable end rods. Same deal.



What I like about OEM is they are probably tougher than steel braided. Infact the OEM lines have a steel/nylon braid in them. The lines are very short as well.
Ok so those are the same bushings, they just need to be pressed out of the rod ends and pressed into the arms. Probably easier than machining a bushing to fit.
Alfissimo Int. likes this.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
Rogue Leader is offline  
post #27 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 09:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 8,761
There was a guy several years ago...Mike, if I remember right who built coil overs and installed on his 164. He didn't post very long, but had an amazing 164. At least I thought it was amazing. He ran into a lot of criticism on the BB for the mods he'd done and stopped posting. Unfortunate.
Alfissimo Int. likes this.

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
Richard2 is offline  
post #28 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Rogue Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard2 View Post
There was a guy several years ago...Mike, if I remember right who built coil overs and installed on his 164. He didn't post very long, but had an amazing 164. At least I thought it was amazing. He ran into a lot of criticism on the BB for the mods he'd done and stopped posting. Unfortunate.
Yeah I've seen his car its pretty sweet but quite a bit beyond what I have in mind for mine, his is like slammed to the floor nearly. I just want to lower the car somewhat on better shocks with some tuning ability, and put some nice 17s on. Do some basic fixes and upgrades underneath and under the hood, exhaust, a nice radio, and make everything work.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
Rogue Leader is offline  
post #29 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 09:57 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Blaine, WA
Posts: 8,761
The point is, as you said earlier, the coil overs are adjustable. You can have one ride heightt one week and another height another, for different occasions.
Rogue Leader likes this.

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
Richard2 is offline  
post #30 of 72 (permalink) Old 08-23-2018, 10:13 AM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,232
When I rebuilt the suspension on the 91S a few years ago, I bought/installed the suspension arms, front and rear, complete with bushings. Much easier. I just called around until I found a supplier. Di Fatta I think at that time, one of the good Alfa parts houses (hope to visit them the next time we are in Baltimore visiting friends).

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
Del is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome