Changing 164 master cylinder/bleeding brakes - Page 5 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #61 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 12:41 PM
Del
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Would one of the one way self bleeding fittings work for the slave as some use on the brakes?

I was lucky I guess when I had to bleed the slave on my LS without one, so did take two people. A couple of whooshes to pump the old fluid out. Worked fine after the bleeding.

I think that the trick is to not let any air in the system when replacing the fluid, but not changing the slave itself. If you are starting out with a new slave, then I suppose it can be a problem to bleed properly. One of the advantages of having different colored fluids such as the ATE Blue and ATE 200, but not in this country anyway.

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
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1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #62 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 01:28 PM
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Ok I don't think I have that puck. I do think I'd like to stick my turkey baster into the clutch tube and pull out that black fluid before starting though, its just in awful shape and I don't want it to mix with nice new fluid.

I'm glad I can use my motive bleeder then I'll do the brakes first then once I have them together then the clutch so I don't run into the situation you mentioned. Funny thing too, there was no clamp holding the clutch hose to the reservoir.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #63 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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"Funny thing too, there was no clamp holding the clutch hose to the reservoir."

That is pretty normal especially for cloth braided covered supply hose on clutch port.
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

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post #64 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 09:43 AM
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Ok so trying to figure out before I put this back in if it works. Those two ball bearings should they push in? Because they don't, they are completely frozen in place. Tried a mallet, and a few other things, no movement at all. (Its dirty form dousing it in PB Blaster)


-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #65 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Ok so trying to figure out before I put this back in if it works. Those two ball bearings should they push in? Because they don't, they are completely frozen in place. Tried a mallet, and a few other things, no movement at all. (Its dirty form dousing it in PB Blaster)

Your plowing new ground as I have never taken that brake valve apart.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

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post #66 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 06:29 PM
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Your plowing new ground as I have never taken that brake valve apart.
I think Jason has, hopefully he will see this. @Alfissimo Int.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #67 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-29-2019, 08:47 PM
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Been to long, I don't remember. I want to stay they move...


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post #68 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 06:02 AM
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Been to long, I don't remember. I want to stay they move...
Ugh thats not good. Those things are NEVER moving again. I soaked it in superclean for 2 days. Then I just drowned it in PB blaster. This car is going to nickel and dime me to death lol.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #69 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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Ugh thats not good. Those things are NEVER moving again. I soaked it in superclean for 2 days. Then I just drowned it in PB blaster. This car is going to nickel and dime me to death lol.
Welcome to the Ship of Fools 164 Resurrection Club. The stories we can tell. Since car already has ABS pump why don't you just hook long line A to rear brake A and long line B to rear brake B with an adapter of some sort? Aren't you changing all brake lines anyway?

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

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post #70 of 78 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 07:29 PM
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Welcome to the Ship of Fools 164 Resurrection Club. The stories we can tell. Since car already has ABS pump why don't you just hook long line A to rear brake A and long line B to rear brake B with an adapter of some sort? Aren't you changing all brake lines anyway?
I am changing them all, I'm actually just finishing that job (I'm on the rears now). I could easily bypass the rear proportioning valve but I would imagine its there for a good reason.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #71 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 02:55 AM Thread Starter
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i am changing them all, i'm actually just finishing that job (i'm on the rears now). I could easily bypass the rear proportioning valve but i would imagine its there for a good reason.
i have seen new ones on ebay from euro sellers but not cheap.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #72 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 08:44 AM
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i have seen new ones on ebay from euro sellers but not cheap.
Jason has good used ones so he is going to take a look at them for me and if we are correct about mine being siezed I'll get one from him, otherwise yes I see them for around $200 in Europe. I hope I don't need to go that route

Bypassing it would not be good, one bad bump in the rain if I tap the brakes for some reason it will loop the car. The ABS is set up expecting that pressure reduction, and not only that, its ancient.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #73 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 07:16 AM
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Ok so trying to figure out before I put this back in if it works. Those two ball bearings should they push in? Because they don't, they are completely frozen in place. Tried a mallet, and a few other things, no movement at all. (Its dirty form dousing it in PB Blaster)

For anyone wondering Jason has confirmed the ball bearings on this DO need to push in on actuation of the rod. So if you remove your rubber boot and rod from your proportioning valve and these are frozen in place, the valve is junk.

He has a good used one on the way to me now.... Hopefully one of the last puzzle pieces I need.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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post #74 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 09:52 AM
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I've had a couple of these apart for inspection. Brake fluid pressure will act to push the rods with the ball bearing tips OUT of the body of the proportioning valve, not in. In operation, the pushing outward of the rods will be restrained, or not, by the metal plate under the large rubber boot.

The rods with the ball bearing tips can't be pushed into the body of the valve without removal of the 10mm hex caps. Before you toss the valve in the trash, unscrew those two hex caps, extract the business inside the valve and inspect the internal walls of the valve for scoring.

Some pics of the parts and pieces you'll find.
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post #75 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 10:17 AM
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Thats strange, Jason is telling me on the one he has the rods push in from there. I'm gonna see if I can get it apart when I get home but TBH those nuts look pretty siezed on mine.

-RL; 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 2014 Mercedes Benz E350 4Matic, 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS, 2008 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD, 1995 Volkswagen Golf (Race Car)
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