New Improved PEX 1" Valve for Heater Shutoff in 164 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 05:39 AM Thread Starter
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New Improved PEX 1" Valve for Heater Shutoff in 164

Old Post here with non-reliable Murray #84707 Shut-Off Valve for 3/4" heater hose:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-...off-valve.html

New 1" PEX 22463LF Ball Valve from Home Depot should be new valve of choice to modify the 164 to shut off hot water to heater core.

Why you ask 1" (25.2mm) when heater hose ID is 3/4" (22mm)? Well because the barbed ends of this 1" valve have an OD of about 3/4" so perfect fit inside 164 3/4" heater hose.

Sorry for confusion in earlier post about small 3/4" PEX valve that OD of barbed ends is not truly 3/4" OD.

Here are some pictures of set up for 164 12v V6 set up hooked to steel tubing bracket coming off front head. This valve may also work on the 24v models but heater hose comes on rear head instead of front head and will be well hidden under corragated intake hose on those models and maybe more awkward to install. Smaller 3/4" PEX valve with 5/8" ID clear tubing sleeves over barbs may fit better.

Note: Old Murray 84707 valve in picture that this valve replaces.
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

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post #2 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 07:29 AM
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NOW ya tell me
I just got the 3/4 inch ones I ordered!

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post #3 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfaVeloce View Post
NOW ya tell me
I just got the 3/4 inch ones I ordered!
I installed a 3/4" one in my 164S by installing clear 5/8" ID tubing sleeves over barbs first and then slide 3/4" ID 164 heater hose over sleeves and worked fine.

Sorry for the fact 3/4" valve does not mean fit's 3/4" hose. I guess I need a course in Plumbing 101 to figure out why 3/4 PEX plumbing valve does not take 3/4 ID automotive hose and fit tightly.

That being said the 3/4" valve doesn't take up as much room and maybe what 24v owners will need as space is such a premium on the 24v cars.

Note: On 5-speed models you can install valve with lever on bottom but on A/T models you need to install it with lever up because of tranny cover and brake lines higher up.

PEX 101 info: Types of PEX Fittings and Connection Systems
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

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post #4 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 09:42 AM
Del
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That's the one I have installed on my 91S. Fit in straight with no problems. Much better than that Murray thingy, which froze up and leaked in my car.

So far, the LS doesn't seem to need one, as since the a/c works really great, I get cold air almost immediately even if there might be heat soak in the heater core like the 91S has.

The 134a converted a/c in the 91S is just not that great, even with new components, including Roadtrip's recommended replacement condenser (which BTW, was pretty easy to install). The a/c gauges do read as they should, but still, not like the LS, for sure.

Del

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1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
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post #5 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 09:43 AM
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"NOW ya tell me
I just got the 3/4 inch ones I ordered!"

Larry, I had absolutely no trouble with a 3/4", -it was a beautiful fit. Before you return it you might size it up.
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post #6 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinino View Post
"NOW ya tell me
I just got the 3/4 inch ones I ordered!"

Larry, I had absolutely no trouble with a 3/4", -it was a beautiful fit. Before you return it you might size it up.
Measure OD of barbs on ends of valve to see what it measures.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #7 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 10:14 AM
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This post was just in time We had to go to town to shop this morning and I picked up 2 of the 1" PEX valves for both 164S's

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine

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post #8 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 01:10 PM
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Well I do like the 300 deg. F rating on the ones I bought. I'm going to install them. At $11 each they're not going to break the bank if I decide to go 1 inch later.

Larry and Belinda Smith
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post #9 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 02:19 PM
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Now all us Murray valve folks are going to feel inferior until we also change to PEX valves......our cars also might have even less value.....
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post #10 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-26-2013, 02:40 PM
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Mine is definitely worth $11 more!! I wish I could add value for everything I spent on it.

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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post #11 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-22-2014, 09:53 PM
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Today I tried to close the Murray valve on Sophia (91 164B) without success.
The valve spindle would not turn without extreme brute force even after copious amounts of XBlaster.

I clamped off the hose on each side to extricate the spindle/valve and of course found a dogs breakfast.

The original rubber or neoprene washer had somehow become part of the spindle thread and it is a general mess.

ONLY Home Depot supplies the PEX 1" valve as I started at my local ACE, tried next local Lowes and ended up at inconvenient Home Depot.....but did experience a nice sunny FL open sun roof blast in Jenny (93 164L)....that car is going to get me into trouble...too fast.

I ran out of time today and will install the PEX tomorrow.

By the way Jenny's Murray valve still works fine and closes easily so I will leave that one for whenever......interesting that both valves are not more than about a year apart in age....I cannot remember which is oldest!

Ta,

Neville.
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post #12 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-22-2014, 11:27 PM
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you sound so Euro when you say you wish you could add value for everything you spend on it!! They practice that idea here with VAT. 22% right now. I get what you meant, just struck my eye..ciao, chris

Maintaining my tenuous strain on reality.
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post #13 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-23-2014, 01:22 PM
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Looks cool, but why is it used? To bypass the interior heater core (when leaking)?
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post #14 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-23-2014, 02:12 PM
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From my understanding it's a modification to shut off coolant flow to the heater core because the 164 has no shut off and controls temperature by mixing hot and cold air sources. Apparently doing this in the summer increases the efficiency of the A/C because the mixer door seals do not adequately seal off the hot source.

I've considered installing one but I have sort of a unique situation in that the temperature swings between my home and where I work on the other side of the hill at the coast are quite extreme in the summer. I also work swing shift and get off at 10:30 pm so it's typical to be using A/C in the afternoon on the way to work and the heater at night on the way home. That means I'd have to be flipping that valve on and off twice a day which seems like it would be a bit inconvenient.

Paul - 1972 Spider - (2)1991 164S's - 1983 308 - 2001 Discovery - 1997 F350
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post #15 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-23-2014, 02:40 PM
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Yes, when you start up the car, even with the a/c on, you can first get a blast of hot air from the heatsoaked heater core before the a/c starts to cool things off. If your a/c doesn't work, you can pretty much roast in the summer because of that blast of heat before you start drawing in ambient air from outside.

Maybe what you need to do is install a 12v solenoid actuated valve so that you can turn the coolant on or off at your whim. Thought about that myself.

I don't think it will stop a core from leaking, as you probably need two valves for that, or a bypass hose.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

Last edited by Del; 03-23-2014 at 02:43 PM.
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