Replace old EV1 injectors with new EV6 injectors and E85-proof the 164 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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Replace old EV1 injectors with new EV6 injectors and E85-proof the 164

Good day Sir or Madam,

Here's the deal:


Out with the old, non-E85-approved single-stream EV1 injectors (bottom) and in with the new, E85-proof, quieter quad-stream EV6 injectors (top) as a drop-in replacement for a bit better MPG, a bit more torque and eventual E85-compatibility if you wish to have that. Read on to know why or just skip to the part numbers if you need new injectors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosch
Effects of Fuel Pressure on Pintle Type Fuel Injectors.
Fuel velocity through a pintle type fuel injector (type code EV 1) can dramatically affect its ability to atomise fuel. The profile of the pintle used in a fuel injector has a direct relationship to the operating pressure it is designed to operate under. Whilst Bosch produce various fuel injectors that may flow the same amount of fuel at a given specification, the system operating pressure will influence the pintle profile. Correct pressure will result in a well atomised spray, while insufficient pressure will result in a “hosing” effect. Excessive pressure will result in either “hosing” or a spray angle that is too large for the targeted area dependent on the pintle profile.
The consequence of excessive fuel pressure on a pintle type injector may well be that as the pressure is increased the mixture values of the engine may appear to get leaner. This is of course not the case, but the fuel being injected is no longer atomised and is entering the cylinder as a liquid mass. This will typically cause the Hydrocarbon [HC] values to rise due to the raw fuel exiting the cylinder, and the Carbon Monoxide [CO] to drop due to insufficient combustion.
Later design fuel injectors [type code EV 6] use “director plate” multi-orifice technology to better atomise fuel across various operating pressures. These injectors allow more flexibility in relation to operating pressures without compromising spray efficiency or fuel atomisation.
So, they improve fuel atomization, which leads to a bit more torque thus more power and a bit higher MPG. They're also quieter, those EV1s are pretty noisy.

(Pintle vs. "director plate multi-orifice")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosch
EV 6 injection valves are designed to inject the fuel as efficiently as possible into the intake manifold runner to achieve a homogeneous distribution of fuel in air flow.
"As efficiently as possible" sounds good to me.

Here's the current valving:

164:

• USA MY94/95 (what you call 164S?), 3.0 24V, 4-cyl 2.0 Turbo (164, 155 Q4): 5969614 aka Bosch 0 280 150 701, sand-colored top, flow rate 21.5lb/h, 225ccm.

• USA MY91/93, 3.0 12V, 2.0 V6 TB, 2.0 TwinSpark, Boxer 16V, Fiat Uno Turbo: 7626715 aka Bosch 0 280 150 702, yellow-colored top, flow rate 18.0lb/h, 190ccm.

(For my own pleasure, Alfa 155 2.5 V6, 1.7L TwinSpark, 1.7L 8V Boxer: 60537527 aka Bosch 0 280 150 703, teal-colored top, flow-rate 14.2lb/h, 150ccm)

Those are all single-stream EV1. There are specific long-style EV6 quad-stream injectors that have identical notches for the clip-nut, length, connectors and 14mm o-rings, so they're are a drop-in replacement for the injectors currently installed in the Alfas. If the injectors happen to be faulty, why install old ones when new ones fit perfectly as well.

New EV6 valves
164 24-Valve: 0 280 150 701 -> 0 280 156 038 from the later 3.2 24V, same 225ccm, available in the US from a dealer in Michigan in the US (who's apparently on AlfaBB, as the international shipping costs are $100 now). (or 0 280 155 828 (VW) resp. 0 280 155 832 (Volvo S80 2.9, Light wine red, a bit larger: 235ccm))
164 12-Valve: 0 280 150 702 -> 0 280 155 823 (BMW V8 part, gray) or 0 280 155 820 (Ford; Beige) (alternatively 200ccm: 0 280 155 746 (Orange, Volvo), 0 280 155 702 (Black, Volvo 850/960) or 0 280 155 712 (Blue, GM/Holden/Opel/Saab 9-5))
155 12-Valve: 0 280 150 703 -> 0 280 155 821 (Ford V8 and some Mercedes, black)

This modification is nothing new and has been around for a while, but people buy the wrong injectors with different electrical connectors, so you have to replace those as well. These are EV6L injectors, with the old EV1 connector ("Version 92" as they call it, not "USCAR" with the wrong connector). No wire cutting, adapters or other modifications required. Loosen two nuts and the fuel line, pull up the fuel rail, remove the clip-nuts, pull the old injectors out, put the new ones in and reverse. Takes about 15 minutes for both rails. Please use reconditioned injectors to prevent any oddities during the operation.

--
E85 compatibility

But, while we're at it, we might as well increase the valving by 33%. This proofs the injection system for the use of up to E85, which requires exactly 33% more fuel than regular gas. Your car will run fine on the larger valves with whatever kind of gas you're using right now, the ECU adapts to them. The Brazilian Alfa models are already Ethanol compatible and use mostly the same parts. Also, the old EV1 valves are only safe up to E22, keep that in mind when and if E85 keeps popping up around you. You have the data to change the injectors for that occasion right here.

Today, you can skip this, but one day this information might be useful.

E85 also cleans the complete injection system plus intake valves and keeps it that way (you can even use it as an injection cleaner on non-converted cars by adding a gallon or two of E85 before going on a freeway), and it burns cleaner as well, so the catalytic converter also stays clean. It's good for the environment.

If you're revalving the car anyways and have a gas station with E85 nearby, it might make sense for you to do this modification. If you revalve a TwinSpark 8V or 16V, you have the perfect E85 car, because the two spark plugs ignite even slightly lean mixtures securely and the engine doesn't "lean shake" (If the mixture gets too lean, it will burn too hot and your engine will eventually take damage, though).

Also all the hoses etc., even on the 164, are identical with those installed in the Brazilian market where the Alfas come out of the factory Ethanol-ready, so they are E85-proof and you haven't got a problem there.

Enough blathering, here are the 33% larger valves. As a comparison, the Brazilian injectors for the 156 2.0 TwinSpark 16V are 220ccm, as opposed to the European 175ccm - or 26% larger (the newer EU Alfas are E10-ready, and 33% is a figure for pure gasoline). I stayed between +26% and +33% (and tried to hit the latter spot-on as a bit bigger won't hurt) while maintaining part availability both for the US and Europe.

164 24-Valve: Was 225ccm, target 300ccm -> 0 280 155 752 (GM LS6 as in the Corvette Z06 etc.) or 0 280 155 759 (Red, Volvo Turbo, easier to find, less expensive and nice color).
164 12-Valve: Was 190ccm, target 240-255ccm. 0 280 155 832 (Volvo)

(155 12-Valve: Was 150ccm, target 200ccm. -> 0 280 155 746 (Orange, Volvo), 0 280 155 702 (Black, Volvo 850/960) or 0 280 155 712 (Blue, GM/Holden/Opel/Saab 9-5). All of them widely available in the US as well as Europe and they can also be used as the stock replacement for 164 12-Valve.

147, 156 1.8 and 2.0 TwinSpark: Replace with 0 280 156 038 from the 3.2 24 V6. The Brazilian model uses 0 280 155 822, 21lb/h, 220ccm, but those are hard to come by.)

Alfa 147 1.6L (non-Eco) TwinSpark is the only model (outside of Brazil) that doesn't has to be revalved at all, as they're equipped with the 2.0 injectors. Unfortunately, that makes them too small for E85 on the 2.0.

Disclaimer:
1) Yes, you need about 33% more E85 than pure gasoline - even if you install the larger injectors, calc out whether that makes economical sense for your situation.
2) If you're running larger injectors and your lambda probe fails, your engine will go into the emergency mode, which will be gasoline + 33%, or E85-only. That's why it's often suggested that you also replace the probe when you do the conversion, luckily the 164, 155 and 1st-series newer models only have one of them. Chances are that it's 20 years old and not that accurate anymore anyways (technically, there's a periodical replacement scheduled every 75.000mi). It brings fuel consumption to normal, so rather be safe than driving on gasoline while it fails completely or waste fuel.
3) When installing, fill your gas tank with E85 then drive home under 3500RPM with the old injectors to flush any dirt from the system, afterwards install the new ones. Also, please replace your fuel filter 1000 miles after you started driving on E85, as it will clear all debris from the fuel tank and pump.

Hope it helps - or even makes sense at all.
akis and Canb156 like this.

Last edited by 155Dude; 08-06-2013 at 05:11 AM.
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post #2 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 06:42 PM
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Thanks for info I saved it in my sticky.

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post #3 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 10:31 PM
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Thank you for the well researched write up, I have often wondered about e85 given its increased availability over the last few years and the possibility of increased performance, but have always been concerned and this answers many of my questions.

I know that your research is mostly focused on the twin spark application, but for those with the 3.0 V6 I Have some additional questions regarding a few things that hopefully you or someone else can answer:


1) Is a larger fuel pump required to handle the 33% additional volume or would current spec fuel pump be sufficient? I guess one thing that may indicate is whether the Brazil spec 164 or twin spark vehicles use same as 3.0 v6

2) many sources for converting gas engines to e85 note that a new sensor is needed to monitor the ratio of ethanol to gas as the ratio varies in the US due to cold/warm climates and season change. Again maybe the brazil 164s have something that accounts for this? Not sure how it is in EU/South America, but US ratios vary from 70-88% (class 1,2,3), maybe it's set strictly at 85% elsewhere that this is not a factor?

3) is a different spark plug required? Some sources state that e85 burns cooler...

4) you mention that the Brazil ECU has the mapping for e85 in the emergency program. What effect would you expect/think there would be for cars with ECUs without this mapping?

5) many sources state that e85 has a limited shelf life (but no one seems to state what that threshold is), did you come across anything in your research indicating whether e85 could be left in a car that is put away for the winter without detrimental effect? Would normal winterization methods apply in this case or is there additional precautions?

Just to add a caveat to those in colder climates, some of the sources I've read indicate the use of a block heater is required where temps go below 5 Fahrenheit when a car is not equipped with special starting controls (special pre-injectors and/or separate tank of gas specifically for starting)

Again thank you for the posting, it's always great to see options that can improve our much loved vehicles!

Thanks,
Spencer

1991 164S Black (daily driver)
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post #4 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 09:26 AM Thread Starter
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Well, it's mostly 156 2.0 TwinSpark because that's my daily driver, but also 2.5L V6 on the 155, which has the same injection system as the 3.0L V6 non-S, just with a smaller bore, stroke and injectors.

1) Fuel pump is fine, and the V6 fuel rail is also fine (same as on the 3.2 V6).

2) The lambda probe adapts to the correct mixture, on aftermarket conversion kits the detection is also realized via the lambda probe. The fuel sensor is just a nice-to-have thing. In Europe the winter mixture is E65, but with larger injectors, it will adapt to anything from gasoline to E85.

3) It burns cooler, yes, because the mixture gets cooled down if you atomize 33% more fuel into the airstream (to condense fuel, you need energy, and it takes it out of the heat). You can install the cooler plugs from the TwinSpark 8V into the 12V V6 if you want, on the 24V the platinum plugs from the later 24V V6 will be fine. In warm climates, it shouldn't make much of a difference though, as the plugs are fine for the cold winter air, too.

4) The Brazilian ECUs have an emergency mapping so that the engine runs on gasoline if the lambda probe breaks. The regular cars have them, too, but if you increase the injector flow rate those values are off by 33% - so the emergency program expects E85 instead of gasoline. That's all, but is something to consider.

5) Everything is safe for Brazil (and made of plastics), so that shouldn't be a problem. If in doubt, do it old school: In the manual for the Fiat Panda (which has a steel gas tank), it states that you have to add some motor oil to the fuel, then let the engine run for five minutes before you store it. It has a mechanical pump, though.

Once you find one of these at your gas station of choice, you can consider the larger valves. Otherwise there's the chance that you have to drive too far to even find one of those.


E10 and E20 are safe for the 164, as the materials, injectors (Bosch says E22 is fine) and ECU can cope with that (the old Bosch Motronics regulate up to about +15% depending on the injectors, because if you keep the injectors open more than 80% of the time (aka duty cycle), they will deteriorate quickly). They subtract what ever amount of fuel is necessary to archive a stochiometric mixture according to the lambda probe, though. Too big of injectors wouldn't be too good either, because the longer you inject into the airstream, the more homogen the mixture. That could be another reason for the 126% figure on the 156. I don't know the exact reason as I'm not an engineer at Fiat Powertrain Technologies do Brazil, though.

E50 and E85 require larger injectors.

Last edited by 155Dude; 07-30-2013 at 12:34 PM.
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post #5 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 12:01 PM
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hi
in israel we dont have this e85
we have 95 octan unleaded or 98 octan unleaded which is not comon and very expensive.
i have a 1994 164 super 3.0 v6 24v
is this relevant for me ?
thanks
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post #6 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Somewhat, yes.
The new EV6 injectors give you a bit less fuel consumption and a bit more (and also more consistent) power, and when you're rebuilding the engine or replacing defective fuel injectors, you should use new-style ones.

Whether you want to replace them without any defects depends on the availability of the newer injectors.

Last edited by 155Dude; 07-30-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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post #7 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 01:31 PM
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ok, thanks and
when i look at ebay on 0280155759 i get only 320 cc and not 300 as you write.
do i need also to replace the plugs? i use the ngk pfr6b
thanks
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post #8 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Those are the injectors with an increased flow rate for E85, try 0 280 155 832 from Volvo instead. They're readily available.

I also found a guy who replaced the sand-tops (same as 164S) on his BMW 535 with the Volvos:


He said that the car "Pulls harder on the top end (5-6k)", but on a 3.5L with injectors that Alfa uses on a 3.0, that's predictable.
So it's safe to announce that this replacement is confirmed to fit and work fine, at least on a BMW which uses the same stock injectors as the 164S.

Last edited by 155Dude; 07-30-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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post #9 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 02:02 PM
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are you positive about the 0 280 155 832 ?
i get other thing then yours.
what about the 0 280 155 752 or 759 that you write in the start of this post are they wrong ?
thanks
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post #10 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 01:48 PM
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This might sound silly, but where can I find these EV6 injectors to buy?

Tetteh Pecku: 91 164L (Gone but not forgotten...)
94 164LS
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post #11 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-19-2013, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobbi View Post
are you positive about the 0 280 155 832 ?
i get other thing then yours.
what about the 0 280 155 752 or 759 that you write in the start of this post are they wrong ?
thanks
155 752 and 155 759 are for the E85 conversion, if you don't have those kinds of fuel at your local gas station, you'll be fine with the 155 832.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetteh View Post
This might sound silly, but where can I find these EV6 injectors to buy?
Google up a (local) shop that sells reconditioned injectors, there should be one for every region.

For your 164L, I'd suggest a set of 0 280 155 712 from the Saab 9-5, they're quite easily available. Or as far as the E85-upgrade goes, 0 280 155 832, which are on lots of Volvos.

Last edited by 155Dude; 07-30-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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post #12 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-21-2013, 08:54 PM
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Not due to any specific plan, but I am going to be installing the 4 hole injectors in my 164 soon. I pulled the old injectors out to do o-rings, and remembered that I had a set of newer injectors in a box "somewhere." Against all odds, I found them, so in they will go. I'll report how they work.

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post #13 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-21-2013, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS888 View Post
Not due to any specific plan, but I am going to be installing the 4 hole injectors in my 164 soon. I pulled the old injectors out to do o-rings, and remembered that I had a set of newer injectors in a box "somewhere." Against all odds, I found them, so in they will go. I'll report how they work.
hi
please report and allso what 164 do you have and what serial nem are the new injectors
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post #14 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-22-2013, 09:22 PM
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I didn't take the time to read through all of this but I hope no one is considering putting in an injector that flows 33% more at all pulse widths with out re-mapping the control unit to compensate on regular fuel. That would be BAAAAAD.

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post #15 of 88 (permalink) Old 07-23-2013, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
I didn't take the time to read through all of this but I hope no one is considering putting in an injector that flows 33% more at all pulse widths with out re-mapping the control unit to compensate on regular fuel. That would be BAAAAAD.
i just thinking to do so?
what will be wrong ?
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