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post #11506 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks R2 FedEx shipment arrived today

Now I have a full set of fronts and rears to build up.
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Lakeland, Florida
Virginia Beach, Virginia
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #11507 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 10:04 AM
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Well, today I will start on the 164 Clutch. We have 2 days of moderate weather before it gets too hot to play with metal parts in the sun. I had to deal with a cracked radiator on the Subaru before I got involved with the Alfa. The Hefe repaired the crack with JB weld fortified with fiberglass fibers. The suby seems to be holding water again, so it's Alfa time now.

Had a wonderful visit with Del and his wife on eclipse day. We had two friends come over from the Czech Republic, so the 6 of us shared a bottle of wine. Del's champagne LS is GORGEOUS. Hadn't seen a 24v engine before, so that was fun too.

Anyhoo. Will come crying if I get stuck.

VM
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post #11508 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 02:57 PM
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Gave it a wash, changed tail lamp bulbs and got rid of dash lights, saw a white Giulia in town (very nice!), saw a spider down a random side street one town over. Looked like it's been parked for a while.

These Giulia's might be catching on! From my sightings, I do say that I like the style.

John
1991 Alfa Romeo 164L, 1993 Ford 5.0L Mustang
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post #11509 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 03:12 PM
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Finished connecting wires to starter, installed heat shield, connected intermediate shaft and outer axle. Took the opportunity while it's up in the air to pressure wash the front wheel wells, front undercarriage and as much of the engine as I could reach. Slowly getting rid of Dempster Hwy dust and dirt.

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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post #11510 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 06:36 PM
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R&R the clutch progress. Finally!

Well, I got the easy stuff done: completed day 1 of Steve's 3-27-2010 "Changing Clutch on a 164". I'm into the fun stuff (day 2) now, so I thought I would quit, before I had to get out the additional jack, and really start swearing.

I still don't have my 164 car CD pages printed out (computer problem), but I think I'm locating most things that Steve is talking about. Do I have to disconnect the right wheel? Didn't see anything in your thread, Steve, but Richard2 mentioned it...maybe not for the 91.

Oh - little twit inventions: didn't have help on breaking CV joint 8mm bolts loose, so used an open end wrench on the nuts, jammed against the back of the tranny. Worked like a charm! And on mine the ABS sensor bracket was held on by a 5mm allen bolt, not 6mm, and OMG it wasn't rusted in place!

Will also wash the underparts as well.

VM
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post #11511 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica Mangan View Post
R&R the clutch progress. Finally!



I still don't have my 164 car CD pages printed out (computer problem), but I think I'm locating most things that Steve is talking about. Do I have to disconnect the right wheel? Didn't see anything in your thread, Steve, but Richard2 mentioned it...maybe not for the 91.

And on mine the ABS sensor bracket was held on by a 5mm allen bolt, not 6mm, and OMG it wasn't rusted in place!

VM
Yes, but later on will be OK to remove R/F wheel, disconnect lower 4 bolts on R/F strut, remove 3 M6 long bolts w/10mm socket holding intermediate shaft bearing in rear motor mount support. Then slide IM axle, w/outer axle still attached to it and wheel hub and brake assy and let it all pivot on lower ball joint. The reason for this is when you put tranny back onto new clutch disc trying to line up to clutch and IM axle at the same time is rough BUT you can wait until then and see if you are lucky maybe you can line up both without removing IM axle. I couldn't do it by myself.

ABS allen head bolt is M6 but allen head wrench is M5 to remove it.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Lakeland, Florida
Virginia Beach, Virginia
AROC 164 Tech Advisor

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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #11512 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-25-2017, 08:32 PM
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Thanks! That's what I needed to know.

VM
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post #11513 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisto Steve View Post
Now I have a full set of fronts and rears to build up.
Jealous much!

Christchurch, NZ.
Alfetta GT twinspark project, Alfasud Ti, 3x164s, 4x156s, 147, 166, plus parts cars.
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post #11514 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 03:57 AM
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That was then, this is now, Veronica. I wouldn't do it that way now. There's room to disconnect the CV joint between the intermediate shaft and outer axle, swing it to the rear, remove the 3 10mm bolts holding the intermediate carrier bearing in place and pull it back. Best drain out the gear oil first, or you might get wet I just did this to change my starter.

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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post #11515 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 09:20 AM
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Hi Richard!
Yes, I have already drained out the gear oil. I have been going step by step in Steve's 3-27-2010 thread "Changing Clutch on a 164". I had no problem getting the intermediate shaft disconnected from the outer axle on the left side, but if I have trouble on the right side, then I may go with Steve's recommendation. Otherwise I'm going to follow your advice.

Also, is removing that bolt from the lollipop (big) end of the upper motor mount critical? I remember replacing both bushings on that thing when we did the heater core and it was kind of a PITA.

What really scares me is getting everything back together. I'm also wondering if for me, removing the subframe would help. But since I haven't investigated what THAT entails, I'm just speaking like an ignorant little twit.

I did finally look at the car disc and printed out the relevant pages, so now I know better what y'all are talking about .

So, now I have to get my additional jacks out and start on day2 of Alfisto Steve's instruction sheet.

Luckily Safeway had a sale on a 12 pack of Lagunitas IPA, so I might have enough elixir to get me through at least the removal of the tranny.

Also, did some of you crazy people just split the tranny from the engine, and not remove it altogether?

Will check back in a little later.

VM
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post #11516 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 10:42 AM
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OK. Looks like I should remove the left side IM axle? not sure it will clear subframe when I lower tranny to subframe. Looks awfully tight. Removed bolt from upper dog bone, per Steve. Now removing tranny mount. Please advise.

VM
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post #11517 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 01:15 PM
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I haven't needed to remove the stub axle sticking out of the transmission on the left side, no.
Have you got everything out of the way in the left side wheel well... complete strut assembly, rotor axle assembly, caliper tied up? Can't remember which model you have...if ABS...,ABS controller disconnected and tied up out of the way
You'll have to bend the lines slightly to do that.
Some of us have done even crazier stuff!! With enough IPA anything is possible! So, if you having problems, you not drinking enough
If you have very much work to do on the engine, it's better to pull the motor/transmission assembly. If all you need to do is the clutch, it's easier to just pull the transmission.
While the transmission is out, I HIGHLY recommend you put in a remanufactured starter. It's so much easier. I would also recommend you weld a socket to the upper starter bolt and a 6" extension to the socket to make it easier the next time.

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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post #11518 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 01:23 PM
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I knew I'd eventually find a use for that aluminium tape...
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Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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post #11519 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 02:19 PM
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Nice! Yes, I just started my second beer. The car is in full sun right now (2 PM), so I re-organized my tools and came inside for the latest from y'all. Supporting the tranny is puzzling me because of its shape. I already have a tranny jack under the engine oil pan, because it works well for that, and a simple floor jack under the gear box of the tranny. I put down a wooden stake, on the subframe, and the tranny itself is resting on that. I'm still not sure how well my floor jack is going to work when I attempt to raise and wrestle the tranny out...you know I'm not working on a nice flat concrete slab, which is unfortunate. Oh well. Us 3rd world types gotta make do.

So, right now I am fighting with the shift rod. I unbolted the 13mm that anchors the T-bone, but nothing is sliding yet. I have hosed everything down quite liberally with Kroil (my penetrating oil of choice, although I've used it so much now, over the years, that I think i am getting sensitized/allergic to it), and will mess with it in a bit.

Honestly, I don't how you guys got the stupid 13mm bolts holding the reaction rod bracket to the tranny, out. I have no idea how I'm going to get them back in.

I've got the clutch slave cylinder bracket bolts broken lose, and 3 of the easy to get to 17mm hex head bell housing bolts out.

The sun was making me quite stupid, so thought I would quit. Yes, I've done all the other things I was supposed to do (I followed Steve's how-to thread by the letter).

I FINALLY caught a glimpse of the starter, so I still have that to look forward to. I am definitely putting in a new/rebuilt starter. No one has to convince me!

Thanks for the support - this is totally the hardest thing I've done yet on this car. And I'm not even to the hard part yet. Makes the rack and pinion look like a cakewalk.

VM
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post #11520 of 14380 (permalink) Old 08-26-2017, 04:53 PM
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I can vaguely recall those reaction rod bracket bolts being at least a 3 beer job, but don't think I took them out on the 2nd, 3rd etc transmission jobs. Just take the rod to bracket bolt out. I think thats what I did.
There was a mechanic shop closed and auctioned off everything a year ago here. It was raining, so i didn't go. I'm really kicking myself now as they auctioned off 2 hoists. One went for $700. I woud have bought that in a heart beat if I'd known...
Have you got a sheet of plywood or something on the ground for your jack?

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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