What did you do Alfa related today? - Page 690 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #10336 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Winter has returned for at least another week so had to move BB4 into warmer working space and man has to have a hobby RIGHT?
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #10337 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica Mangan View Post
Art - does your friend work on cars? Is he prepared for the commitment that owning a 164 involves?
Fortunately yes, or else I wouldn't recommend it. We borrow and lend each other tools and expertise all the time. I dabble in relatively older simpler machines. He is braver than I and rebuilt the auto tranny of his GMC minivan in his own garage, swapped a new engine into his Volvo S70, etc.. he's a research engineer at GE.
- Art

2007 Aston DB9, 1994 Alfa 164 LS, 1982 Alfa GTV6 Balocco SE, 1975 Maserati Bora, 1967 Plymouth Satellite convertible, 1965 Plymouth Satellite hardtop
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post #10338 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 01:50 PM
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Ordered a couple of timing belts. Dayco. Cleaned out RockAuto's inventory. I hope they work well.

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread, now parts car status:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

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post #10339 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 01:59 PM
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Hope they're not old stock.
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post #10340 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 02:00 PM
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Oh boy, didn't think of that.

Everyday is a school day. Learning something new all the time

View my '74 GTV restoration at:
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View my '91 164s adventure at:
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But wait there's more: View my 164LS thread, now parts car status:
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You're kidding, another one?! 1984 GTV6 Maratona
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You didn't...oh yes I did. '73 Berlina graduate course in rust repair. No thread yet, don't want to piss off the GTV

You didn't...oh yes I did II. 1995 164LS 5 speed, awesome when it runs!!!

Musings on shop related items:
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post #10341 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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BB2 164S getting Euro upgrade cam pulleys and timing belt

Well, ML still at here sister's until Monday, so I decided it is time as I have 5 years on a timing belt I installed new in 2012 even though it only has 12k on it. It was a NOS AR 60562106 timing belt I got from ARI-Orlando that was made by Dayco Isoran in 2005 day 111 near as I can tell from date code still visible on belt.

I did this Euro upgrade on BB1 last January (2016) and used a AR 60500466 belt that was hermetically sealed in a plastic blister pack.

Here is what I did then: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-...1-my-164l.html

I am installing new 60588421 mechanial tensioner and either a
1. German Gates 5340 58134x25 rounded tooth belt DATE OF MFG UNK Chris brought me or
2, An Alfa 60500466 with 2013 date on box, or,
3. A Dayco Isoran 94411 with I think a 2006 date or,
4. Another Dayco Isoran 9441 with I think a 2012 date on it.

Crap shoot on which belt is best to use AR NOS, Dayco or Gates.

They all look good to me but I like the looks of the rounded teeth on the Alfa 60500466 and the Gates 5340 best.
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 03-04-2017 at 07:05 PM.
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post #10342 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 04:13 PM
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Ordered a set of wheels today.

Stuck in traffic yesterday and got a thumbs up from a gent in a Volvo from RI. By the time it opened up, he was behind me and I didn't have the heart to tune it up and leave him in the smoke screen. Anyway, I got to clear it out nice this afternoon.

John
1991 Alfa Romeo 164L, 1993 Ford 5.0L Mustang
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post #10343 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 04:49 PM
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Steve, I don't understand going to all this trouble and expense with the improved TB tooth profile and then to revert to the mechanical tensioner, which is known on the 12V engine for allowing the belt to get slack if cars rolls backward while in gear. Seems to be a contradiction.

white '92 164 S (71K)
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post #10344 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
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Steve, I don't understand going to all this trouble and expense with the improved TB tooth profile and then to revert to the mechanical tensioner, which is known on the 12V engine for allowing the belt to get slack if cars rolls backward while in gear. Seems to be a contradiction.
I don't share that opinion, especially with later euro pulleys and rounded tooth timing belt.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #10345 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisto Steve View Post
I don't share that opinion, especially with later euro pulleys and rounded tooth timing belt.
Neither do I. I have used them on several engines with no problem. I think correct installation is the key. I haven't tried the rounded tooth belt conversion though.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), son’s girlfiend’s car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (son’s new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #10346 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Checked end play on 164 crankshaft today

Checked axial (end) play on 164 crankshaft thrust bearings today on BB2 with dial indicator.

Getting close to limit it seems at 0.008". Factory spec is 0.0031 to 0.0104" or 0.080 to 0.265 mm.

I noticed end play when I removed crank pulley and timing belt cog gear.
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor

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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 03-03-2017 at 05:40 PM.
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post #10347 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 05:43 PM
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I suspect they are two different problems.

The rounded teeth are sturdier, as they don't tend to crack as much at the bottom, esp with an old belt, as square teeth can (less overturning moment at the bottom corner), and they also reduce the tendency of a square tooth corner to "trip/catch" on the top corner of the square teeth on the cam pulley.

The mechanical tensioners tend to allow belt slack when the engine is turned backward, letting the belt to leap over the cam pulley teeth en masse, as one group at the same time. I don't think the rounded teeth prevent that. They are better in the long run otherwise.

That's my take on it anyway.


When rebuilding an engine from the ground up, you do have to install new crankshaft thrust washers, oversized if necessary. I've known a few who forget about that when putting new rod bearings it seems.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6

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post #10348 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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When rebuilding an engine from the ground up, you do have to install new crankshaft thrust washers, oversized if necessary. I've known a few who forget about that when putting new rod bearings it seems.
Yep, My plan is to put BB2 back together with Euro upgrade pulleys for now.

I have the 93L engine with 228K from Non-BB4 as rebuild candidate. I need to check crankshaft trust bearings end play in L engine as it is already out of car. I may rebuild it and make it into an S spec engine as I have set of new S pistons and liners as well as a new set of S cams and intake and exhaust tappets. I have new thrust bearings in set of rod and main bearings, too. I have rebuilt set of spare heads ready to accept new S cams and tappets.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Virginia Beach, VA
AROC 164 Tech Advisor

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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 03-03-2017 at 06:21 PM.
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post #10349 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 09:21 AM
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Put Rossa on the road today. 200 miles r/t over to a town for one of Susan's eye visits. Bought myself some new windshields as well. Some of those frameless jobs that weigh nothing and have the semi frames made out of some kind of titanium or who knows what. Rossa ran a treat and of course it rained on the way home. I think this was Gods way of reminding me how much I dislike the sweep of the wipers but then again, they don't hit the hood any longer!! It was nice having a full compliment of internal lights now. Few weeks ago I replaced all the bulbs in the HVAC control panel. Kinda PITA but worth it. OTOH if I'd known how fiddely it was, I prolly would have not fiddled with them. I'm due an oil change but doubt it'll be done now that the rains have come and it is colder than it has been. ciao, chris

Maintaining my tenuous strain on reality.
89 164 2l Twin Spark, 2011 Tonka Dump

Recently added: an 89 75 (Milano) 1.6 litre w/44K on the klok.

Past loves:
79 Alfetta GTV w/Spica, my 1st Alfa

An 88 Graduate. Not really love but interesting nonetheless.

A 68 BMW 1602 - man do I regret letting that one go!

79 Scirroco, ex plowed into an illegally parked house with it...
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post #10350 of 14312 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 12:43 PM
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At TPA awaiting a flight back to my stable!
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