Changing 164 Cam Pulley oil rings/oil seals - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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Changing 164 Cam Pulley o-rings/oil seals

Well, today I finally made a tool to pull rear cam pulley on my 164 so I could change leaking 60507327 o-rings on cam pulley hubs. I have factory tool 1820051 timing gear wrench to hold cam gear/aux gear and 1821123 puller for cam shaft pulley but it will not fit rear cam set up on the 164.

I made my puller from plumbing parts I got at home depot:

I used a 3/4" plumbing flange and a 3/4" plug. I had to drill two new holes in flange and one original one to line up with three bolts to hold flange to cam pulley like factory puller. I also had to use three longer bolts from puller in flange. I also put a puller tip inside 3/4" plug to center it on camshaft.

First off you have to time out engine to TDC with pointer lined up with front crank pulley amd cams lined up at 1 and 11 oclock.

I removed timing belt covers too after I pulled upper dog bone engine mount. I had to remove nuts off lower engine mounts and take 4 bolts out of front strut to allow axle to move enough when I jacked engine up to get enough clearance to remove rear cam pulley hub as three seperate pieces so I could also change rear oil seal.

I NOW DISCONNECT TRANSMISSION MOUNT AND LOWER TRANNY ONTO SUB FRAME TO GET MORE CLEARANCE TO GET TIMING BELT COVERS AND CAM PULLEY OFF.

Next install factory wrench to hold cam pulley while you remove cam shaft acorn nut with a 22mm wrench. Don't let pulley move and damage belt or bend valves.

Once acorn nut off keep wrench on pulley and install puller and install three bolts then install plug. Now while again holding pulley with wrench tighten plug until cam hub pops off cam. this outer keyed hub has the oring under inner flange. This is main source of oil leaks onto timing belt. After 15 years and 181,000 mine were petrified and leaking badly. Even though the cam hub 60610985 oil seals (32x47x10 mm size) wear not leaking I changed them anyway since I was this far into it.

Remove puller and two bolts inside hub so you can seperate inner hub from gear then you can get hub out of head if you have engine jacked up enough.

I ended up changing both cam shaft oil seals, hub orings, timing belt, tensioner, front motor mount (installed Saab 9000 mount) and intalled a Super Pro poly bushing in upper dog bone while I was at it.

You can see in last picture I had a pretty good oil leak on front head likewise on rear head and almost all from just two hardened orings.
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Lakeland, Florida
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 09-13-2013 at 06:57 PM. Reason: ADD MORE INFO ABOUT LOWERING TRANNY TO GET MORE CLEARANCE
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-19-2005, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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Orings old/new for cam pulley

Here are a couple pictures of orings, oil seals; etc. Outer hub with new oring installed and removal tools I used to get oil seals out of heads.
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Lakeland, Florida
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 08-19-2005 at 05:23 PM.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-20-2005, 12:42 PM
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AWESOME! this was the kind of guide i wanted for my milano, i am about to do the same thing.
How hard is it to take the cam pulley off without the part you made?
I might have to make something like that....

'88 Alfa Romeo Milano Verde - 24V, '87 Platinum 3.0 (for sale), 94 LS parting out
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-20-2005, 12:59 PM
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10 outa 10 4 inititative
looks scary to me well done

Alfa 164 cloverleaf 12v
Full engine balance @ benalfa
Heads done @ john wilcox competition engines
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-20-2005, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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I would say without a puller such as factory tool or one such as I made you will not seperate cam hub from cam on 12v V6 engine.

The 24v pulleys are easier to remove from cams and I understand that you can do it with a hard rubber hammer not so with 12v engine.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Lakeland, Florida
Virginia Beach, Virginia
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-26-2007, 05:09 PM
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I made the cam gear puller as shown in the pics from Steve and succeeded in breaking it while trying to remove the cam pulley from the front cam. That sucker was really stuck on there!! I did get it off, but had to modify my "Harbor Freight" puller with a shorter center bolt. I bought an 18mmX1.5 bolt about 2" long, drilled a hole in the middle to take the center and cranked really hard until it popped off. Fortunately the cam pulley on the rear head came off much easier. I'm sure the Home Depot pipe flange one would have worked there, but it broke on the front head.
The seals are replaced, now I just have to finish putting it back together, next Thurs.

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-26-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfisto Steve View Post
You can see in last picture I had a pretty good oil leak on front head likewise on rear head and almost all from just two hardened orings.
I struck up a conversation with some folk down here that work on the 3.0L 12V and mentioned that I have a rather visible oil leak coming somewhere from the front of the engine. They mentioned the exact problem you've cured here on the cam pulley hubs, and the pictures you've provided are as they say "priceless". I'm guessing that all of our cars suffer from this problem. A timing belt service should include this repair as well.

[I]Cheers,
Carl[/I]
[FONT="Tahoma"]1991 164 Black ATX [/FONT]
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-26-2007, 08:45 PM
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My oil leak was on the rear head oil seal. From the look of the wear marks on the pulley sleeve, something is out of round as part of the sleeve(about half of the diameter) didn't have any wear marks, like only half of the sleeve was touching the seal. I'm not sure this seal replacement is going to fix the leak. I also replaced the rubber O rings on the hub to pulley joint, but there was no sign of them leaking.

Red 1991 164S, Black 1991 164S, Red 1987 Milano, 1972 Berlina, 1973 Berlina rebuilding SPICA engine
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-27-2007, 07:44 AM
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Could be the seal that was out of round?
Charles

-'91 164L 5 speed (sold sadly) -'04 Volvo XC70 -'97 Mazda Miata -'04 Ford Explorer Eddie Bauer V8 -'07 Honda Odyssey EX-L
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-26-2008, 07:49 AM
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Several months ago I made a puller exactly as Steve did, and it worked for me. I was going to do the rear cam seal, but didn't have enough room to work, as I hadn't lowered the transmission as Steve suggested above. But I did get the carrier apart to replace the O-rings inside. This was for a 12V car with the three-piece pulley.

I'd remembered the puller details from this post of Steve's, but didn't look up the post and didn't remember this bit. In our case, it was the O-rings which were the culprit, so it didn't really hurt that I didn't do the shaft seals.

Michael
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-02-2009, 02:00 PM
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I figured out that suitable suitable substitutes for the 2 special tools shown in the second pic can be purchased from harbor freight. The puller needs different bolts, and the pulley holding tool needs to be modified with an angle grinder, but it looked like it should work. I will get a pic later and post it. I have a milano not a 164 though, so im not certain about clearance issues with the body of the car on the rear pulley.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-02-2009, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis_k View Post
I figured out that suitable suitable substitutes for the 2 special tools shown in the second pic can be purchased from harbor freight. The puller needs different bolts, and the pulley holding tool needs to be modified with an angle grinder, but it looked like it should work. I will get a pic later and post it. I have a milano not a 164 though, so im not certain about clearance issues with the body of the car on the rear pulley.
You will have no body clearance issues on Milano or GTV6.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Lakeland, Florida
Virginia Beach, Virginia
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-02-2009, 04:11 PM
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You will have no body clearance issues on Milano or GTV6.
I meant I wasnt sure if it would work on a 164, but it does for sure on a milano. The bolt on the puller im using sticks out about 6 inches from the pulley itsself, and the puller about 1.5-2 inches depending on what bolts you use.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2011, 03:39 PM
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Thanks for the info Steve. Since I've had to remove my transmission, i decided it would be an opportune time to change my leaking o rings and do the seals too. Got all done today. Tomorrow I will set the timing replace spark plug seals and install valve cover gaskets and put the top of engine back together again. Next Monday i begin to put the $160 ebay tranny inn. fingers crossed.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-19-2011, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Hope for the best now is this bargain tranny 5-speed or A/T?

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Lakeland, Florida
Virginia Beach, Virginia
AROC 164 Tech Advisor

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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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