Changing 24v water pump and resetting timing belt - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Changing 24v water pump and resetting timing belt

I just finished having more fun than I ever wanted changing Myron's water pump on his 1995 24v 164LS.

Operation was a success and the patient runs well and warms right up to 195F plus and cooling fan comes on shortly thereafter.

I will post write up and pictures soon but here is the start of process:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/164-...w-leaking.html

Parts list:

part number nomeclature
60559314 24v water pump
60615713 w/p gasket upper steel
60615714 w/p gasket steel
1445868 oring w/p tube 2 each
60567726 24v lower w/p housing
15248711 7mm bolts 3 each
60559862 thermostat
60507415 thermostat gasket
60507416 thermostat gasket
60573502 hose to head
60573501 hose to head

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 01-20-2009 at 09:38 AM.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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24v water pump intall

Here are pictures of pump and metal gasket, lower housing and mid housing and thermostat with sensors:

Blue Bosch sensor is Coolant Temp Sensor (CTS) for engine computer, ground wire is for temp gauge and two terminal sender is for temp gage (wide terminal) and overtemp light (narrow terminal).
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 01-20-2009 at 06:54 PM.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Setting up cam timing using timing dies

I was lucky in that I had white marks on cam pulleys that I put on last Septemeber so I knew they were right. However, after doing pump change I could not get engine to set up at top dead center and get all four timing marks on cam pulleys to line up.

I ended up having to pull front cam cover, knock cam pulleys loose off tapers on cam shafts. One I did that I was able to set up rear cams using my white marks and with front cams free of pulleys and cams locked down with timing dies.
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Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 01-20-2009 at 07:53 PM.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Torqueing cam caps and TB tensioner

One I had engine in time I removed front head timing caps and torqued caps and then torqued tensioner pulley retaining nut with weighted tool.

With engine in time and proper tension you can instert 1/16" drill rod into tensioner housing and through hole in chrome pisto, and if set correctly there will be a 1/8'' air cap between housing and tensioner pulley bracket (where chrome piston showing.
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Story board of maintenance on TB cover for future reference

I am running out of room on TB cover to record dates and mileage of timing belt schnage, tensioning and water pump change. setting tension on serpentine belt and hooking up transmission mount bolt anfter jacking engine and tranny back up (needed it down to get clearance to remove TB covers and water pump.
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 01-20-2009 at 07:33 PM.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 07:35 PM
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Steve, I have a question....how is the therm. housing secured to the pipe that runs between heads ? from your photos looks like a pressure fit with o-rings ? not that I'll ever own a 24v.. or want to own one...

Projects Fail in the Beginning not in the End
93 164L 5 speed
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 07:39 PM
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Wow, that looks like a lot of work! I do not blame you for not wanting to have to do it again, great info to read though. This is one reason I would not want a 24V car, just not mechanic friendly. Thanks for the post,
Jon

Again the proud owner of the White Dragon and a 2010 Jetta TDI
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 07:50 PM
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And the next question is... is there a way to mount the top middle idler pulley on a 12v ? seems to me it would wrap more of the timing belt around pulleys more esp the rear pulley.

Projects Fail in the Beginning not in the End
93 164L 5 speed
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ke3ee View Post
Steve, I have a question....how is the therm. housing secured to the pipe that runs between heads ? from your photos looks like a pressure fit with o-rings ? not that I'll ever own a 24v.. or want to own one...
That's it - two rubber o-rings in grooves on pipe between heads and fitting is slide onto pipe and bolted to water pump same as 12v. The pipe is bolted to rear of engine as it exits between heads so it can't move. It is not a fun thing to disconnect which is why I had to cut old damaged fitting off pipe with dremel tool and cut off wheel.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 01-21-2009 at 04:17 AM.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 08:38 PM
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From the pictures, that engine appears to have a lot of varnished oil under the cam covers. What type of oil and what OCI have they been using? Have you seen evidence of sludge in other parts of the engine?
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 03:59 AM Thread Starter
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Getting older both the car and the man

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From the pictures, that engine appears to have a lot of varnished oil under the cam covers. What type of oil and what OCI have they been using? Have you seen evidence of sludge in other parts of the engine?
There was some sludge near #4 area of head I removed as best I could. The engine does need an oil change. Not sure what kind of oil he runs but I had to drain out 4 quarts last September cause he kept adding oil when he had a red light without checking dip stick. I should have changed it then but didn't.

I think his oil change intervals are whenever not regular. I think I did last one for him. Not a good schedule I am afraid. I will have to make a special effort to take better care of his car for him since he can't.

He doesn't drive car enough and it had a bad thermostat so it was not warming up. I discovered that late last year when I drove him to a dinner meeting in his car. He takes such short little trips when he does drive it and running cold is not help. I had to swap battery the other day when I discovered coolant tank empty as his was down from car just sitting. Installed same spare battery of mine I used in his Spider to get it started, too.

I hope to get some driving in for him and will get oil changed for him soon.

AS he said to me yesterday when I took it back to him "don't get old it is no fun." His health is not that good and at 75 he is one of the young ones living where he does in a assited living place. He has finally sold his house and I expect the cars will be next.

He has a nice 89 Burgundy Spider for sale.

Ciao, Alfisto Steve
Lakeland, Florida
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Alfa Semi-Daily driver: USA model - BB2 1991 164S Black Beauty II ALFISTO [U]

[U] BB1 1991 164L w/S engine and A/T now excess to inventory [U]

Daily driver and parts hauler but not car hauler 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7L H.O. V-8

"A day without an Alfa whine is like a day without sunshine"

Last edited by Alfisto Steve; 01-21-2009 at 04:16 AM.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 05:45 AM
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Timing.

Great photos, Steve.
I think you lucked-out in not having to time the rear head.

Currently Owned:
1957 Giulietta Spider (Maria - Home from the painter!!)
1988 Quadrifoglio (Tony)
1987 BMW 653CSI (Gustav)
2002 VW Passat Wagon V6
2012 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion

Gone, But Not Forgotten:
1966 Giulia Sprint GT
1994 164LS 5-Speed

Working on:
1959 Giulietta Spider - Restoration
1967 Fiat Dino Coupe - Restoration
1967 Duetto - Freshening
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 07:04 AM
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its a reasonable approach

to time it that way IF you are sure its in time -- which you were! Probably saves 2 hours on the deal by not having to pull the plenum, etc.

Another way is as described by me earlier, except that if you find the front not lining up right, goose em into place and vice-grip em to hold , then re-attach the belt, tensioner etc

bob

74 GTV with 10548's and Ingram pump
71 Spider 1750 BOMBER ; 1995 LS 78K tight fast car
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 01:18 PM
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Academic questions re 24V water pump replacement

Is there a way to remove/replace water pump without removing the timing belt?

How much mechanics' time does water pump replacement add to a timing belt replacement job?

1995 164 LS 5 speed 78K
owned since new
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 01:24 PM
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nope. T belt has to come off to swap the water pump as far as I am aware. I would guess that another 20 minutes might get tacked on to remove the old one/clean/install new?

74 GTV with 10548's and Ingram pump
71 Spider 1750 BOMBER ; 1995 LS 78K tight fast car
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