12-16-2006, 09:30 PM
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Location: annapolis, md
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Pops out of 2nd on deccel
I searched the archives and did not come up with anything so I ask.
My 83 Spider jumps rather violently out of 2nd gear when you let off the gas. It is possible to hold the shifter in gear but takes alot of force. The rear transmission mount seems to be fine with no signifigant sag. Could this be a worn gear?
I will be changing my clutch soon so I will have the trans out and I have another trans form a 78 spider (I believe the syncros are worn in that trans but i have never driven it), that I can use for parts.
Thank you for any help.
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83 Spider Veloce
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12-19-2006, 07:40 PM
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If 2nd gear is the only one with a problem & the others shift up/dn ok and hold on decel., then yeah...time to crack the gearbox. You may be able to salvage pieces out of the other unit for 2nd gear and ? else you find you need to replace. Alot of good info on the BB for trans. o/haul - a shop manual is also a big help. Good luck.
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Ciao bello...
Doug T.
[I]"Dang' - that thing's got a HEMI!" [/I] 
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01-23-2007, 03:27 PM
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Just to make sure, it can be helpful to remove the console and shift boots first to make sure than aren't pressing the shifter out of gear. If it's not also jumping out of fourth, probably not, but I'd hate to rebuilt the whole trans over a console misalignment issue.
Andrew
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01-23-2007, 04:17 PM
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
console misalignment issue.
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Good onya Andrew.
EDIT:
To further the thought, it could even be a combination of console and trans mount. (you really can't see sag too well, other than if it's bad enough to let the trans tail hit the crossmember, but you'll know right off if you support the trans then pull that crossmember and actually look at the mount condition with no obstructions in your view)
Last edited by Tifosi; 01-23-2007 at 04:20 PM.
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01-23-2007, 11:28 PM
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I am going to rebuild the trans I have from the 78 and replace the the trans in my 83 with that.
The mount seems to be perfectly centered, and I seem to have full travel of the shifter.
I suspect I have a missing tooth on 2nd gear and something about 5th gear causes a vibration. The syncro on 2nd is going bad, and 1st also grinds a considerable amount from a stop. One U joint is bad and I believe they are out of phase as well.
I have never driven the 78 trans, but did drain the oil to find alot of brass/bronze colored bits, so I am going to open her up and see what I can do to get more miles form that one before i install.
I am
swapping head (& cams)for a hp one I am building now
replacing tans
replacing clutch assem
disassem the alt. and inspect
remove AC
rust proof and repaint engine compartment
install chassis stiffener
replace all trans and engine mounts
replace all U joints and the doughnut
Retune L-jet for new head
hopefully in a 1 to 2 week time frame.
Think I will notice a difference when done? 
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83 Spider Veloce
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01-24-2007, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pillowmeto
The mount seems to be perfectly centered
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If so, then you're looking at a roached mount as the sleeve should be in the bottom half with it's top edge at about center.
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01-24-2007, 06:19 AM
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Oh, better add an alignment to your list if you're doing the chassis stiffener.  |
01-24-2007, 10:48 PM
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When I last crawled under the car, though difficult to see, after looking at the bushing for a while I came to the conclusion that the bolt going through it was centered in relation to the steel sleeve/hole bored in the trans.
That would mean the mount is in-fact sagging.
You can still feel a bump through the shifter at low speeds, as if something is wrong with the teeth themselves, and the syncos are bad.
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83 Spider Veloce
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01-25-2007, 03:31 AM
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Is 2nd the only gear you feel the bump in? (presuming you mean when you shift into gear)
If not, it could be the clutch isn't fully disengaging (items to check: master cylinder, adjustment rod length on MS, slave cylinder, fluid, soft line), the little 'pills'/interlock rollers in the trans are worn, deformed, or the trans may be low on fluid.
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01-25-2007, 09:01 AM
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Yes, it is the only gear, but it is constant,, no just during engagement. At higher speeds it just turns into a vibration, at low speeds you can feel it as a bump.
5th has a pretty bad vibration that is felt mainly in the shifter.
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01-25-2007, 10:17 AM
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Some/much of the vibration may be due to the bad mount letting the trans housing settle down on the crossmember.
I'd suggest getting the mounts swapped out (engine and trans as you planned) before getting too carried away with gutting the trans just yet.
You can change the all the mounts without pulling anything (various instructions on trans and engine mounts with pix all over the place in the forums) so that would alleviate the need to drop it twice if the mounts don't bring it.
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01-25-2007, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifosi
You mean the steel sleeve through the mount is centered top to bottom in the rubber part of the mount proper?
If so, then you're looking at a roached mount as the sleeve should be in the bottom half with it's top edge at about center.
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Poping out of 2nd gear is a bit unique. The only way this could happen is if the syncro sleeve has not fully engaged the dual taper of the syncro ring, and not engaged the dog teeth. If it is fully engaged, the shift sleeve is "over-center" on the syncro ring and friction of the internal sector bands forces the syncro ring outward. To pop out from the engaged position means the syncro rings and other bits are broken.
But it is easily possible for one of several bits of the linkage to prevent the gear from fully engaging. The bolt locking the shift fork on the shaft might have become loose, the lever in the shift tower worn, or (the most likely) something in the steel sliding plates of one of the three rubber boots is interfering with the lever getting fully into gear.
To test the last, take all the boots and covers off the tx. Loosen the shift arm from the top of the lever stub so the curved steel plates can move freely. There are a few positions that these can get into that interfere with the shift pattern, so slide them around while shifting the lever - it's likely you will find the interference there. (Been there too. I think I've learned a lot about alfas by making nearly every possible mistake!)
I had a problem with my TX popping out of reverse, but there are no syncos on R. In my case, the fork for 5-R was bent. This fork has a long arm that carries the reverse idler gear (which slides on a short intermediate shaft) and this arm was bent.
Robert
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01-25-2007, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sRacer
Not quite. The picture you attached is of the 101 and early 105 transmission mount. Later 2L cars had a more solid bushing in this location that was centered in the opening. Using the wrong rubber mount slightly changes the transmission angle to the drive shaft and might be part of your problem.
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Sorry, gotta disagree on that.
The S3 factory repair manual shows that trans bush (it's where the pic came from in fact) and is just like the bushing I replaced early last summer, both in what I removed and what came as the proper replacement part from the vendor.
Even IAP and others who carry the poly insert to stiffen the trans mount show that specific trans bushing as the one that belongs.
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01-25-2007, 05:59 PM
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Have I switched generations again? ("No, Robert, the other left turn" as my lady too often says). Anyway, there is a difference in the two designs, and using the opposite bushing - which fits just fine - misaligns the tx just a bit and that can lead to interference with the shift boot parts.
But I still think its either a broken part inside the tx or interference with the shift lever.
Robert
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01-25-2007, 06:13 PM
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I've seen the bush you speak of and it's definitely meatier, and yes, it's off by 'just that much' once it's in. IIRC, it's orginally for a Giulia 1600 5 speed, but folks with 1750's and 2L's can use them as a stiffer alternative.
I'm kinda hoping for interference myself as I hate to tell anyone to take anything apart until all other avenues have been checked. (it's my own inherant laziness I guess. I won't take anything apart unless I absolutely have to onnaconna that would be like work  ) |
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