Wht to do when you can't remove lower ball joints? (GTV6) - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
ibeatgodzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 56
Garage
Wht to do when you can't remove lower ball joints? (GTV6)

Hello,

Having yet another nightmare on things not coming apart on my car. Patience and perseverance has worked so far, but I'm a bit stuck with the lower ball joints (which have been sprayed many times with WD to no avail).

Following the manual, place special tool under ball joint so puller can get some grip. After trying without special tool, I quickly saw that the puller just slipped off the edges of the control arm.

Conveniently, the old rear engine mount, from which I'd removed the inside to make a drift to insert the new engine mount, with just a fraction taken off of the inside on the lathe, fits snugly around the ball joints. There's my special tool.

Take 2: Put puller over special tool. Make sure everything is straight and the puller isn't going sideways. Try again. Ball joints still not pushing through, not budged a fraction, but now I have bent the studs sideways.

Erm... Now what?

I haven't done it yet in case somebody has a better idea, but all I can think is, hacksaw the now bent studs flush with the arm, put a potentially sacrificial small 1/4" socket over what's left and try again?

I joke that this is the one Italian car that bits don't fall off from, because everything is so darn rusted solid in place.... [look of hopelessness]

1975 Giulia GT1300 Junior, 1981 GTV6, some modern German stuff, and a 1958 Messerschmitt KR201.
ibeatgodzilla is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 01:51 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 86
hammer and a big cold chisel between the ball joint and the control arm
alfettaparts2 is offline  
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 04:15 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
ibeatgodzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 56
Garage
Can't say I tried exactly that... I did (not very brutally) put a thin chisel in and hammer all the way round to clear the 1mm gap between the joint and the arm, to let the WD get in there better. I'll try putting them in the vice and whacking with a bit more force then...

Had the same fun with my BMW lower ball joints recently - though being half the age of the GTV6 and significantly less rusty they did play ball with the puller in the end. Before I put the new ones in I filed off just a thin skim of the splines around the ball joints that press into the arm to help them go in easier than the old ones came out - was still very tight to press and it certainly isn't going anywhere but I can see myself doing the same for this car.

1975 Giulia GT1300 Junior, 1981 GTV6, some modern German stuff, and a 1958 Messerschmitt KR201.
ibeatgodzilla is offline  
 
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 05:22 AM
USTA BE AN AD-MIN
Platinum Subscriber
 
ossodiseppia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broomfield, Colorado U.S.A
Posts: 8,226
Garage
Have you tried a MAP torch?

Brian __________________________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ossodiseppia is offline  
post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:28 AM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 8,859
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Lever down on the ball joint while using a big hammer in your other arm and hit the suspension upright where the ball joint taper bolts in. Ensure you have left the nut on but loose. Leaving the nut on prevents thread damage from any miss hits.

Once you get good at this one good hard hit pops the taper with no damage. Been watching my father (professional mechanic) do this for my whole life ... does not even own a ball joint separator (only needed for people who cannot use a hammer correctly )
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is offline  
post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:32 AM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 8,859
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibeatgodzilla View Post
.... was still very tight to press and it certainly isn't going anywhere but I can see myself doing the same for this car.
I'm confused??? A press should not be used with ball joints as you cannot press on the correct part. All you do is put them in and do up the nut. The nut pulls them in and as they are a taper the taper grabs and all good and tight.

If you press them in surely you will damage the ball joint ... ????

Oh and filing anything will not make them easier to get out, the taper is designed to grab and hold on tight. Tapers are wonderful things used in many engineering places.
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is offline  
post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:45 AM
USTA BE AN AD-MIN
Platinum Subscriber
 
ossodiseppia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broomfield, Colorado U.S.A
Posts: 8,226
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
I'm confused??? A press should not be used with ball joints as you cannot press on the correct part. All you do is put them in and do up the nut. The nut pulls them in and as they are a taper the taper grabs and all good and tight.

If you press them in surely you will damage the ball joint ... ????

Oh and filing anything will not make them easier to get out, the taper is designed to grab and hold on tight. Tapers are wonderful things used in many engineering places.
Pete
Pete,

The lower ball joint on the Alfetta series is pressed into the lower A arm. It's a much different set up than the 105/115. However, the OP didn't mention if he was trying to remove the ball joint from the A-arm or remove the ball joint from the spindle.

Brian __________________________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ossodiseppia is offline  
post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:45 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 86
I think hes replacing the ball joint not just seperating them from the uprite.
alfettaparts2 is offline  
post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
ibeatgodzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 56
Garage
Sorry, the press referred to my comments with experience doing the same job not on the Alfa but on my BMW - for which a 20T press is what the workshop manual recommends! But in my case a Facom puller (just about) managed. I've got to say, the puller sure had a hard time. Filing just a little shave off the outside was mostly meant to make inserting the new one a bit less difficult than removing the old one was, as even with a little bit less material on the splines it was still a very tight fit. The reason for bringing it up was, it has exactly the same design as the lower ball joints of my GTV6.

To the other responses - sorry, I didn't specify; I am talking about removing the joint from the arm to replace it; undoing the ball joint from the wheel hub was a piece of cake with a separator tool. And yes, obviously no need for filing tapers; I meant (very slightly) filing the spines that press into the control arm.

A bit too late to put nuts on the threads...


... So ideas for how to remove the splined section of the ball joint from the lower control arm would still be appreciated! Both of them are very stubbornly holding their ground... Going by the picture of the new ones at least it doesn't look very deep. But so far the best idea is hammer and chisel and brute force...

P.S. Not important, merely curiosity - was there any reason the original upper ball joints were riveted and not bolted in place? Even the factory workshop manual seems to glaze over that part, making no mention of changing them. Odd. Perhaps they expected you to buy a whole new upper control arm/ball joint assembly back in the day?

1975 Giulia GT1300 Junior, 1981 GTV6, some modern German stuff, and a 1958 Messerschmitt KR201.
ibeatgodzilla is offline  
post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 01:51 PM
USTA BE AN AD-MIN
Platinum Subscriber
 
ossodiseppia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broomfield, Colorado U.S.A
Posts: 8,226
Garage
I would try a MAP torch to heat the A arm. When you install the new ball joints, put a little antiseize on the splines.

Brian __________________________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ossodiseppia is offline  
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 11:39 PM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 8,859
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Okay yeah I have no idea on what you are talking about, but glad breaking the taper was easy

Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is offline  
post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 10:56 PM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Jim G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ga
Posts: 2,348
Garage
Air hammer with a tapered chisel bit. Go around the ball joint putting it between the ball joint and arm. Also use a torch to heat the lower arm around the outside where the ball joint press in. Oxy/Acetylene torch is what you need to produce enough heat to break the rust bond. When you go to install the new one. Put them in the freezer for several days before putting them in the arms.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I just got 2 more.
Jim G is online now  
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 05:02 AM
USTA BE AN AD-MIN
Platinum Subscriber
 
ossodiseppia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broomfield, Colorado U.S.A
Posts: 8,226
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Okay yeah I have no idea on what you are talking about, but glad breaking the taper was easy

Pete
A MAP torch uses the yellow gas can. These are the ones plumbers typically use. They run hotter and heat faster.

Home Depot carries them.
ossodiseppia is offline  
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:03 PM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 8,859
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Quote:
Originally Posted by ossodiseppia View Post
A MAP torch uses the yellow gas can. These are the ones plumbers typically use. They run hotter and heat faster.

Home Depot carries them.
. I meant the whole ball joint removal from suspension arm. As I can't contribute I'll be quiet instead
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is offline  
post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 01:44 PM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
bshorey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gilroy, CA, USA
Posts: 2,044
Send a message via AIM to bshorey Send a message via MSN to bshorey Send a message via Yahoo to bshorey
A pickle fork and a BFH usually works for me. If that doesn't work for you, then a BiggerFH with some heat might do the trick.

bs
bshorey is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
Replace with
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome