Super Front Suspension Issues - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2010, 04:30 PM
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Well if nothing else, it looks like it's all together proper~like in the pic above.

Sorta tangent:
Do you have the special inserts for the upper arm castor bushings?
Without them, it won't take long for that to start thumping and even tearing the bushing at the edges of the oval cutouts.
(or are they already there and I'm just seeing funny)

See this thread if you aren't sure what I'm on about.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2010, 06:53 PM
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Inserts

Darren,
Good eyes! I haven't purchased the inserts yet. Somewhere in the course of all this messing around, I realized I had forgotten about them. They are on my clean-up list.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2010, 08:33 AM
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I don't see anything obviously wrong. You have the proper uprights to match the two-bolt suspension geometry? I believe four-bolt 1750/2000 uprights are different from 1600, revised from lessons learned on the GTA knuckle-riser geometry?
Did the suspension sit OK before you rebuilt it, or was the car not together before so it's not possible to say?
Andrew
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
Do you have the special inserts for the upper arm castor bushings? Without them, it won't take long for that to start thumping and even tearing the bushing at the edges of the oval cutouts.
See this thread if you aren't sure what I'm on about.
Yea, but does he really need them? As Tifosi wrote on June 11th in the above-metioned thread: "The bushing to the far right is it's redesigned upgrade replacement found in the 80's and up 115 chassis which did away with the washer bits by being taller and having smaller holes or more solid construction as the case may be. (the type in the middle, used without the special washers, will self destruct in short order without the added support)"

So, did rabhalter install the later/taller bushings (which don't require the washers), or the earlier/shorter ones? From studying his photo, I am guessing that he has the later/taller - I don't see space for the washers.

More information on this can be gleaned from the IAP Fall 2010 catalog on page 54. IAP sells the earlier bushing as p/n 91031 and the later one as p/n 61015. Since the spacers that the earlier bushings require cost $17 a pair, going with the later part makes sense for economic reasons.

On the original issue of ride height: Keep in mind that for every 1" that the length of the compressed spring is increased, the ride height will go up by about 2". So, if the new spring pads are thicker, the effect will be amplified. Every Alfa that I have ever restored required a lot of fussing with spring length to get the ride height where I wanted it. Yea, you get good with the threaded rod spring compression - decompression technique.
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Last edited by Alfajay; 11-01-2010 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:51 PM
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Andrew,
I believe the uprights are correct. They are shorter than the ones on my Spider and the Dunlop calipers fit.
I can't really say how the suspension sat when I got the car, but I beleive the attitude was approximately correct.

Jay,
Good point about the inserts. I'll check before I buy anything. The new adjustable upper arms came with the bushings pressed in as part of the Centerline rebuild kit. Perhaps they are the new version.

Thanks for stating the rule of thumb about ride height vs spring length. I could have looked a long time for that information.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:57 PM
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In practice, the formula does not come out exact re spring length vs. suspension movement. I put shorter, stiffer Rugh springs in my GTV and had unexpected dimensions at all four corners. Not radically off, but not exactly what you'd expect either. In my experience, setting ride height in a 105/115 car is an inexact science, and make take more than one trial to get it where you want it. As you say, you can get pretty handy with the threaded rod. Or buy/borrow/steal the factory tool, which makes front spring removal a matter of literally minutes, once the car is high enough to clear the tool.
Andrew
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2010, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
In practice, the formula does not come out exact re spring length vs. suspension movement. ..... In my experience, setting ride height in a 105/115 car is an inexact science, and make take more than one trial to get it where you want it.
Yes, I concur. The ratio isn't 2.0000 to 1. It's more like 1.75 - 2.25 to 1, depending on the month of the year, barometric pressure, and what offerings you have made lately to the Alfa gods. If you are cutting your springs, make the first cut a bit on the long side, measure the result, and then re-cut (if necessary) from there. And yes, doing the threaded rod thing will get tedious after the 4th or 5th iteration.
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'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2012, 09:49 AM
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Lessons Learned

Sometimes when I'm searching for answers on the 'Board I find threads that end short of a resolution. I then wonder how the poster finally resolved his issues. In the interest of closing the loop on my query, I'll offer the following:

When undertaking a complete restoration, don't worry too much about suspension function (beyond the very basic) and ride heights until the car is close to being completely trimmed out. This may sound obvious to veteran restorers but it wasn't that obvious to me when I was obsessing over my front suspension while the Super was still little more than a rolling chassis. Now that the car is trimmed out and 98% ready for the road, I find that the trim and ride height are well within normal ranges. Thanks to all for their input and support.
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Bob A.
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