02-09-2008, 08:20 PM
|
 |
In the Spider's Nest
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
Posts: 5,487
|
|
 Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrington
That may be true, or there may be production variations over the years. I'm happy to change data as better info comes in. I was also thinking it might be a good idea to break the table into three posts, one for 4x108, one for 4x98, and one for 5x98. Thoughts?
-Jason
|
Best regards,
__________________
Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
164 91S, 93L & 95Q
Milano 88 Verde
Co-chairman 2011 AROC-USA Convention:
Alfas in the Bluegrass, Lexington, KY, USA
|
02-09-2008, 10:21 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: tigard oregon
Posts: 1,436
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by sh0rtlife
alfetta 2.0 quad 11lb
alfetta 2.0 tubina 14.1lb
gtv2.0 (Campagnolo) 13.5lb
spyder veloce (5 star) 12.1lb
gtv6 (Campagnolo) 13.5
i asume the data i have means "early" gtv6...considering its dated 1982...figures taken from "proceedings of 39th world magnesium conference and exhibition 13-15 june 1982 detroit MI"
|
looks just like the early 80s gtv6 wheel but in 4bolt
4lug turbina
looks like the standard 5lug 80's gtv6 wheel
spyder 5star
black faced 5lug gtv6 wheel
the pic's in the artical are poorly copyed and in black and white..id scan them but its REALY bad quality to begin with
the ones on my gtv6 are the 13.5lb
anyone got the weight of the milano platinum wheels?
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
|
02-09-2008, 10:47 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,320
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaparticle
Something here does not add up. I had a set of BWA sportstars and a set of mid 80's Daytonas at the same time. I don't remember the exact weights but I do remember that the BWA's were each about 4 lb lighter than the Daytonas.
|
IMHO - this may be arguing semantics - but I think the Cromodora CD-35 wheels should be called "Daytonas" and the '80s OEM wheels should be called... something else. I'm not saying Alfa never referred to the OEM wheels as Daytonas (they did, occasionally) but rather that it's confusing and not altogether appropriate.
Remember, the basic Cromodora wheels that led to all the Cromodora variants (CD-35, CD-31, etc.) was first seen in 1967 on the Ferrari Daytona, hence the name!
|
02-12-2008, 08:12 PM
|
 |
Certified Oldschooler
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
Posts: 1,506
|
|
|
73 Cromodora Daytona
I have a spare "April '73" Cromodora Daytona that weighs 12 pounds (no weights or stem). It is a CD-35 14"x6" JK. it is 22 mm offset and 4x108. By contrast the current IAP CD-35 repro (KBA 43907) weighed 4 pounds more at 16 pounds (with stem and 4 weights). Neither have centercaps.
I've been told (and debate rages) that pre ~86/87 CD-35's were higher "magnesium" alloy versus the later ones an "aluminum" alloy. I have 4 ca. '84 CD-35's but cannot get their weight since they are mounted. Your list may need to differentiate between these. Regards, Bruce
__________________
Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A., U. of NOTASME
Now - '69 1750 Spider Veloce ( pictures)( and more) 10562.1480323 (since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!);
Gone - '69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
Last edited by Anfanuts; 02-12-2008 at 08:21 PM.
|
02-13-2008, 09:04 AM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vista, CA
Posts: 835
|
|
|
BWA Wheel Specs
I thought you guys might like to see this:
__________________
Bruce Colby
Competition Director, AROSC
'65 Sprint GT (TS race)
'69 1750 GTV (TS street)
'71 Jr. Z (special occasions)
'89 E30 (the dark side)
----------------------------
'69 1750 Spider (sold  )
|
02-13-2008, 10:25 AM
|
 |
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,281
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Colby
I thought you guys might like to see this:
|
-Jason
__________________
Jason Arrington
'60 Giulietta Spider
'67 Super - Project no more!
|
02-13-2008, 11:08 AM
|
|
Certified Oldschooler
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
Posts: 1,506
|
|
|
The CD-35 1973 offset was 22mm, not 35. Thanks for this chart. I'll try and measure one of my ca. 84's. They are touted as being lighter also. Cheers, Bruce
__________________
Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A., U. of NOTASME
Now - '69 1750 Spider Veloce ( pictures)( and more) 10562.1480323 (since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!);
Gone - '69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
|
02-17-2008, 03:21 AM
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 758
|
|
i had 4 different version of the bwa sportstars 108mm...they all weighed different
same is true for the cromodora's... typically the earlier the lighter. i hear the newer daytonas arent event magnesium anymore?
link here: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/susp...ar-wheels.html
Last edited by davbert; 02-18-2008 at 04:15 AM.
|
02-17-2008, 08:05 AM
|
|
Certified Oldschooler
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
Posts: 1,506
|
|
|
CD-35's Weights
My research in old parts catalogs indicates that Cromodora Daytona's were "magnesium"-based alloy up to about 1985. An IAP 1984-1985 catalog says, "CROMODORA wheels are die cast MAGNESIUM for a smooth finish, attractive appearance, light weight, and extra strength. They are approximately 2/3 the weight of a comparable aluminum wheel." (Notably I paid $362 for a set then.)
They disappeared from the catalogs after this (~86-87) and reappear in an October 1987 Shankle catalog as "new aluminum reproductions" without the CROMODORA name at $88 each. Even Shankle's June 1987 catalog did not list them in any fashion.
I have an April 1973 version (date stamp on back) spare, and photos and records of a December 1976 version (photos below). While the face and back markings were a bit different, they are both 12 pounds. I shipped the 1976 to an aerospace engineer in Seattle who said he could fix it (bad curb rash). I await his answer. I bought the 4 on my car in April 1985 but have not had them off recently to check their date stamp or weight. When I do that, it will establish a later model CD-35 weight for sure (and date stamp).
One could devote a thread to just CD-35's but that's not the intent of this thread. I'm sure someone in the business back then who dealt with this in detail could shed some light on the changeover and some metallurgist on the exact nature of the differing alloys. The bottom line IMO, in my mind there is ~pre-86 magnesium-based alloy at 12#, and post-86 aluminum-based alloy at 16# (for a 6x14). Even the new IAP repros are 16#.
I have corresponded with some who insist the earlier wheels were NOT magnesium. I'll leave that to the experts. That is why I say "xxxxx-based alloy" above. I took some metallurgy courses a long time ago and know you can mix different proportions of aluminum and magnesium to achieve different ends (weight, strength, ductility, etc.). One clear end is 12# versus 16#.
As Joe points out above, the were first seen in 67 on the Ferrari (365 GTB-4) Daytona, so that is an early date point (size and bolt pattern notwithstanding).
Adder: One thing you will note in the photos (and it is clearer in person) is that the 4/73 and ~84 have sharper edges on the star and circle corners. The 12/76 is noticeably more rounded. Interesting as it is in the middle of those two other dates. Markings differ on all 3 also.
OK experts with facts, weigh in here. Thanks, Bruce
__________________
Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A., U. of NOTASME
Now - '69 1750 Spider Veloce ( pictures)( and more) 10562.1480323 (since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!);
Gone - '69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
Last edited by Anfanuts; 02-17-2008 at 10:46 AM.
Reason: Add ca. 84 wheel pic; add Adder
|
02-17-2008, 05:17 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,320
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by davbert
i hear the newer daytonas arent event magnesium anymore?
|
Of course - the old ones were magnesium alloys (i.e. not pure magnesium) and the new ones are aluminum alloys - and I'm sure the exact composition is a fairly close secret.
|
02-17-2008, 05:27 PM
|
 |
Darth Slacker
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern NY, USA
Posts: 8,675
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfanuts
first seen in 67 on the Ferrari (365 GTB-4) Daytona, so that is an early date point (size and bolt pattern notwithstanding).
|
Or the 1965 Ferrari 365p Berlinetta Speciale
Suffice to say, the pattern/design existed before the Daytona car and likely the wheel 'name' is something that Americans came up with after seeing that style, for quite likely the first time, on that car in '67. (unless of course they've always called them 'Daytona' in Europe also, in which case that theory is out the window  )
Last edited by Tifosi; 02-17-2008 at 05:46 PM.
|
02-17-2008, 07:01 PM
|
|
In the Spider's Nest
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
Posts: 5,487
|
|
|
OEM Spider wheel is "Daytona"; not "look-alike"
Don't know when the name "Daytona" was first used. However, FTR, the OEM Campagnolo 5-star wheel used on the Spiders from 1982 through 1985, inclusive, is officially called "Daytona". The Alfa literature documents this clearly. I think it is misleading to call it a "look-alike". From 1986 forward the OEM 5-star wheel used up to and including 1994 Spiders, was made by FPS. This FPS edition is identical to the original Daytona, but it is referred to as the "5-star". Granted that Cromodora also used the name "Daytona", but they never supplied an OEM 5-star wheel for the Alfa Spider.
Best regards,
__________________
Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
164 91S, 93L & 95Q
Milano 88 Verde
Co-chairman 2011 AROC-USA Convention:
Alfas in the Bluegrass, Lexington, KY, USA
|
02-17-2008, 07:15 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,320
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunige
OEM Spider wheel is "Daytona"; not "look-alike"
|
Since it does have it's own style with the deep trough around the rim, perhaps calling it an "Evolution" of the Daytona instead of a "look-alike" would convey the same meaning without being derogatory?
|
02-17-2008, 07:26 PM
|
|
In the Spider's Nest
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
Posts: 5,487
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeCab
While "look-alike" is perhaps a bit harsh, it is very obvious the wheel is derived from the Cromodora.
Since it does have it's own style with the deep trough around the rim, perhaps calling it an "Evolution" of the Daytona instead of a "look-alike" would convey the same meaning without being derogatory?
|
Best regards,
__________________
Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
164 91S, 93L & 95Q
Milano 88 Verde
Co-chairman 2011 AROC-USA Convention:
Alfas in the Bluegrass, Lexington, KY, USA
|
02-17-2008, 08:23 PM
|
|
Certified Oldschooler
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
Posts: 1,506
|
|
|
Like I said above, this could spawn a separate thread and lots of debate about alloys and content, and now names. I agree it should be the name the manufacturer officially gave the item, and say a common usage name e.g.,"phonedial"?). Just specify the mfg in the table and the name/nickname/date/model/size/bolt pattern/etc. to differentiate it. The thread is not about naming them, it's about adequate ID and weights. I was only trying to add the nuance that the mfg. date, among other parameters, makes a difference in weight as davbert's post above points out for BWA's as well. Keep the data coming; good luck to Jason sorting it all out!! Thanks,
__________________
Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A., U. of NOTASME
Now - '69 1750 Spider Veloce ( pictures)( and more) 10562.1480323 (since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!);
Gone - '69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
 Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
