Do VW type 2 & 3 calipers fit on Alfas

[ossodiseppia]

I was wondering if anybody knows anything about VW type 2 front brake calipers fitting on 115 spindles? I'm also wondering it the the type 3 front calipers are a match for the 115 rear caliper. Any ideas?

[4sfed]

The VW Type II calipers are a bolt-on for the spider/GTV front calipers. The fluid connection is different, but not difficult to modify. I remachine the calipers and use the original tubes between caliper and brake hose, but you could also make a new set of tubes.

[dwc]

You might also consider a set of front calipers from a '72-'74 BMW 2002tii. They're a four piston type that allows use of pads that are quite a bit larger. They are a bolt-on swap, but the hard line between the flex hose and caliper needs to be modified, as the BMW calipers have two fluid circuits (one for the top 2 pistons, and another for the bottom 2).

I've got them on both my Spiders and they work very nicely. My '74 Spider has a 22mm MC, but my '87 had a 20mm, which wasn't moving enough fluid without a long pedal stroke. I changed it to a 24mm MC, and that seems the ideal match. It takes a little more pedal pressure than the 22mm, and has less pedal travel, but either 22mm or 24mm should work well enough.

I've got a BMW friend that had quite a few sets of factory-rebuilt calipers last year, and I was buying them for ~$160/set (no cores required). If you'd like me to check for another set, let me know.

Regards,

Dean
Lutz, FL
'74 & '87 Spider Veloce's

bmw brake swap sounds great but what kind of modification is required, is it just changing the hard line, or fabricating a new one? I had heard about the vw brakes but a 4 piston sounds much better. Thanks for the info.

[John M]

Hey Dean:

That sounds like a neat mod. Could you post up a picture of your modified brake line setup. I may do this at some point. How about wheel clearance? Any problems?

Best Regards,
John M

[dwc]

I never did get any good pics of the calipers installed, as my digital cam is junk. I actually fabricated a new hard line, with a 'Y' fitting that splits the line into 2, before it reaches the caliper. I bought the 'Y' from a local aircraft-type hose dealer, but they should also be available from Earl's, Aircraft Spruce, etc. I used brass, and I've been told that aluminum isn't suitable for such a task. There's plenty of room behind the caliper to work in, so bending the lines wan't a problem, and I had them flared by the hose dealer, as I've never been good with those ISO bubble flares. A friend used a few spare 'T' fittings from the rear brake circuit of a 115, the one that sits just ahead of the differential and splits the line for the two rear calipers, but I think a 'Y' makes for a neater install.

The BMW calipers are heavier than the stock ones, but I don't think that's a big deal, as it's not rotating mass, and compared to the entire unsprung mass, shouldn't make too much difference. I've got Cromodora Daytona replica's on the '74, and the stock star-center alloys on the '87, and there aren't any clearance problems on either car. Brake pads, hardware, and caliper kits are readily available, as there are plenty of 2002tii guys still out there. If one wanted to go one step further, calipers could just as easily be fitted from a 5, 6, or 7 series BMW, which have a spacer between the halves, to allow for a thicker, vented rotor, maybe from a Montreal. I don't think that's necessary for a street car, though, and can't recall ever cooking the brakes on a Spider.

Here's a link to an article about the caliper conversion, so I'll have to admit this wasn't my idea:

http://alfaclub.org/techstff/brkupgd.htm

There are other options, too, such as using alloy calipers from Outlaw or one of the other aftermarket suppliers. Mike Valant is using Outlaw calipers on the front of his Giulia Super:

http://engr.smu.edu/rcam/cpm3v/brakes/brakes.htm

Andy Kress sells Outlaw kits specifically for 105/115's:

http://www.performatek.com/frOnlineCatalog.htm