05-01-2007, 07:14 AM
|
 |
Registered Alfa Addict
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tempe, Arizona-US
Posts: 5,431
|
|
 Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Dragon
lupe,
Glad to hear that someone else enjoys the combination too. Too many folks talk negatively about the Bilstein/IAP spring combo and I don't think many people have actually driven with it... It all depends on what you expect from an Alfa, I suppose. Alan Ward recommending the Bilsteins for spirited street use was good enough for me.
I'm sure you will love the chassis stiffener as well. The combo works great on my '84 Spider.
All the best.
|
I think that is the case most of the time. I love Bilstiens. I have not driven with IAP springs so I cannot comment. I usually don't use springs on spiders, we just cut one link of the rear and that transforms the car bigtime. (well I have used B+G and eibach before) Still drivable around town with stock hieght in front as not to blow the oil pan. (does not look funky either BTW, my mechanic has been doing this to spiders for 20 years, little outdated but works really well)
Maybe old schoolish but what a difference. Not racing it just want better performance around town and this setup does the trick as well. There are tons of setups you can go with.
Adjustable koni's I would never use. I like the bilstiens better. They get better after the first few 100 miles as well.
Ciao
Last edited by Alfissimo Int.; 05-01-2007 at 07:18 AM.
|
05-01-2007, 11:55 AM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,141
|
|
|
I have a car mostly set up for the track. I switched from Koni yellows (which were too soft in the compression department but could be rock stiff in the rebound..dunno why you'd want that) to Bilsteins on my Milano with Shankle SS springs and torsion bars and fat sway bars. I like firm rides, but the bilsteins, on my really low car, are VERY harsh over little bumps. I love the slow speed dampening, but I think the high speed dampening is too much. It could be that my car is too low for the shocks, but either way, their the most appropriate budget solution for me.
__________________
1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]
1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!
1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
|
05-08-2007, 08:25 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 455
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant
I have a car mostly set up for the track. I switched from Koni yellows (which were too soft in the compression department but could be rock stiff in the rebound..dunno why you'd want that) to Bilsteins on my Milano with Shankle SS springs and torsion bars and fat sway bars. I like firm rides, but the bilsteins, on my really low car, are VERY harsh over little bumps. I love the slow speed dampening, but I think the high speed dampening is too much. It could be that my car is too low for the shocks, but either way, their the most appropriate budget solution for me.
|
Hey Grant,
Been having fun at Infineon? :P
You are probably right about your ride height being too low for the Bilstein HD's. While Bilstein can revalve them for a fee, you may need a shorter bodied shock such as some of the Carrera shocks. That said, you may actually get better handling by raising the car slightly anyways. I'm not knocking the Shankle springs... don't have any experience with them. I've seen many street/track cars over the years that were too low to allow for proper suspension travel at Infineon. Controlled extension AND compression are very important on any track but especially at technical tracks such as Infineon. Something to consider anyways. 
__________________
Keep the revs up!
|
05-08-2007, 10:01 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,141
|
|
|
I've got plenty of travel at Sear's (my springs are relatively soft)...the damping was quite good...at speed atleast. Other than the lack of grip and terminal understeer, the car was really fun to drive. Didn't roll excessively, and I was able to keep up with MUCH newer machinery (RSX's, some slow Evo's and STI's, M Coupe, Mustangs...). Are you sure the Milano Bilsteins are the HD's?
__________________
1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]
1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!
1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
|
05-11-2007, 01:27 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 455
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant
I've got plenty of travel at Sear's (my springs are relatively soft)...the damping was quite good...at speed atleast. Other than the lack of grip and terminal understeer, the car was really fun to drive. Didn't roll excessively, and I was able to keep up with MUCH newer machinery (RSX's, some slow Evo's and STI's, M Coupe, Mustangs...). Are you sure the Milano Bilsteins are the HD's?
|
I'm sure about the Bilsteins being HD's. But as to what is the cause of your severe understeer, that is another matter altogether. I'm sure that you've tried the simple remedy....playing with tire pressures (increase front, reduce rear). Having gotten nowhere with that, have you tried going back to a stock front sway bar? The Milano, being a transaxle car should be a fairly neutral package to begin with... I would suspect some modification has overly stiffened the front end....since you don't think it's the lowering and the Shankle setup was probably pretty decent, I'd look at swapping that front sway bar first... you want to get it as neutral as possible and then you can do incremental changes to create some oversteer.... Although with the healthy torque of a verde, I'm sure that you can induce it with throttle.
just my .02... and as I've said before, I have no firsthand experience with the Milano chassis. I'm sure there are others here on the BB whom are much more knowledgeable in this regard.
__________________
Keep the revs up!
|
05-11-2007, 05:04 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,141
|
|
Yeah, we've talked about it for pages in the Milano tread. Basically, it comes down to my roll center being way too low in the front. It's causing the car to roll much more than it should, and I'm gaining positive camber when I corner, b/c my front end geometry is so messed up.
Stock milanos are not that nuetral! They all push with the heavy v6 at the limit.
How do you know the bilsteins are HD's? I thought they used to offer several different flavors.
A bit off topic, but here's my car with stock sway bars, and jus tthe shanlke suspension:
The rear end isn't actually that low, I'm heavy on the throttle.
PS, we really need to get another Santa Cruz drive going..
__________________
1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]
1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!
1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
Last edited by Grant; 05-11-2007 at 05:06 PM.
|
05-13-2007, 02:31 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 455
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant
Stock milanos are not that nuetral! They all push with the heavy v6 at the limit.
How do you know the bilsteins are HD's? I thought they used to offer several different flavors.
PS, we really need to get another Santa Cruz drive going..
|
I'll take your word for it about Milano's pushing. Too Bad Alfa didn't bring us the 4 cyl Turbo Milanos (similar to Volvo 240 Turbos). The balance would be much better I'm sure. Anyways, unless you have a vintage set of Bilsteins which would surely be in need of a rebuild by now, Bilstein hasn't made anything but HD's for any of the U.S. market Alfas for years now. IF, you have an old set of Sports (doubtful but possible), then you surely need to send them in to be rebuilt to restore compression and damping to original levels.
Bilstein has moved away from offering anything but HDs for most cars unless you want to move into the adjustable PSS range which is not made for Alfas. At that point you might as well go full RSR suspension.
Absolutely agree about another Santa Cruz mountains "tour" Been looking forward to it. Drive safely until then.
__________________
Keep the revs up!
|
05-18-2007, 09:02 AM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 111
|
|
|
Are you guys that have IAP springs also using the IAP rear sway bar?
What are your impressions?
__________________
Steve
1972 Spider
|
05-19-2007, 01:22 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 455
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by santoli3
Are you guys that have IAP springs also using the IAP rear sway bar?
What are your impressions?
|
Hey Santoli3,
I am using the IAP rear bar but I am also using 116 end links on my front bar. Even then, I think that the front bar could be stiffer/bigger. My impression of the IAP rear bar is that it made my spider slightly understeer at the limit versus before where it was neutral. I need to trail brake to even begin to get any rotation from the rear now.
Just my .02.
__________________
Keep the revs up!
|
05-19-2007, 03:28 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,141
|
|
|
What's the difference between the HD's and sports?
__________________
1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]
1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!
1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
|
05-19-2007, 06:24 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 111
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Dragon
...My impression of the IAP rear bar is that it made my spider slightly understeer at the limit versus before where it was neutral...
|
That's interesting. I would have thought the heavier rear bar would move you towards oversteer.
__________________
Steve
1972 Spider
|
05-20-2007, 11:54 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 455
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant
What's the difference between the HD's and sports?
|
The Sports had different valving and most important were shorter bodied for use on lowered cars. Haven't seen any in many years and not sure that they even made them for Alfa Romeo. I had a set on a trackday '70 914-6 about 18-20 years ago or so. I think Bilstein has forgone them in favor of the PSS line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by santoli3
That's interesting. I would have thought the heavier rear bar would move you towards oversteer.
|
Yeah that would be the expected result all other elements being the same but as I said, the front sway bar endlinks were upgraded to 116 units. They are longer than the 115 links and increase roll stiffness somewhat. The next step may be an adjustable setup at the front. I would prefer to just find a stiffer rear set up but am holding off since I plan to eventually convert the rear to a watts link anyway.
__________________
Keep the revs up!
Last edited by Green Dragon; 05-20-2007 at 11:58 PM.
|
05-21-2007, 11:56 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 3,141
|
|
|
How do the 116 end links make the front bar stiffer?
__________________
1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]
1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!
1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
|
05-31-2007, 06:10 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 455
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant
How do the 116 end links make the front bar stiffer?
|
They are longer. more preload on the bar than the 115 links.
__________________
Keep the revs up!
|
06-22-2007, 04:03 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chatsworth, CA
Posts: 49
|
|
|
Yup, the Bilsteins rule indeed
Hi there,
I only have good things to say about the Bilsteins, I put a new set on my 77 Spider 3 months ago and took it for a spin immediatly. Tip(lesson learned): great shocks and springs are nothing without the right tires to keep it on the road.  Yup I spun out, that never happened before because all the above was crap, so I knew the car's limit. So next step some nice wider rims with good quality, grippy tires.
Take care all, drive fast and safe.
Wolfman
LA, CA
__________________
Own: '77 Spider, "my precioussss"
Owned: '91 75 1.8L, my very first car 
Worked on: Suds, 33s, GTV's (family's and friend's) 
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
 Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
