Tirewear - Page 2

**papajam** · #16 (**permalink**) 10-08-2003, 02:43 PM

OK. You win!!

CarlosSpider · #17 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 02:57 AM

Thanks all.

Very interesting all yours interventions. I am "calmer" thought that the problem can be alone of adjusting the Toe-in and not of the camber angle (although I will also check it)

**papajam** · #18 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 07:20 AM

Keep in mind that there is a specific procedure necessary to properly adjust the toe on Alfa 105/115 cars. If not done properly, the car simply will not handle, or turn, the way it was designed to.

BigSwede · #19 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 10:09 AM

Well, whats the procedure then?

CarlosSpider · #20 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 10:57 AM

This is that I think is the procedure:

You need to adjust first the right wheel toe-in, acting on the right tie rod. Then measure the length for the right tie rod. Adjust the left tie rod at this length minus 5 mm.

Adjust the toe-in at the left wheel, acting on the central tie rod.

At last verify the length for the three tie rods and compare with values prescribed.

Is it all?

**papajam** · #21 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 11:40 AM

Yep. That's it for a RHD car. Start with the left wheel toe for a LHD car. I think the spec is 264mm - 275mm for the length of the first tierod stud center to stud center; I'll verify this when I get home.
If the length of the first tierod is not within spec, repair as necessary before proceeding.

CarlosSpider · #22 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 02:28 PM

Hi.
MY car is LHD. When I say right, I wanted to say LEFT.

Now I am at home. From "Alfa Romeo Giulia- Spider Owners workshop manual" (Brooklands Books).

"After setting the lenghts of rods measured between ball joints centres should fall between the followings limits. Longer side rod, or both side rods on symetrically adjusted righthand driver cars, 264 to 280 mm. Shorter side, 259 to 275 mm. Centre rod 530 to 550 mm. Failure to achieve these values probably indicates body-shell distortion resulting from accident damage."

On a RHD car you have to forget the difference of 5 mm.

**papajam** · #23 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 04:36 PM

The Alfa Romeo shop manual for wheel and suspension, front end geometry and amendment to specs, supplement to DIASS Pub.# 1507 gives the following specs for a 2000 Spider Veloce;

For LHD cars;
Left tierod length = 264-280mm (adjust 1st)
Right tierod length = left tierod length MINUS 5mm (adjust 2nd)

For RHD cars;
Right tierod length = 259-275mm (adjust 1st)
Left tierod length = right tierod length PLUS 5mm (adjust 2nd)

Center trackrod = 530-550mm (adjust 3rd)

Toe-in = 3mm total (1.5mm per wheel)

**Farace** · #24 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 06:53 PM

Another symptom of my Alfa newbie syndrome, but do Alfa owners actually accurately align their own front ends in their own garages? This stuns me. I was worried that when I brought my car down for an alignment at the shop that they might not have the specs or know how to deal with an Alfa and fudge the job, take my money, and I'd never know the difference. But if it's possible for me to do it myself, wow . . . of course, I'll have to find an accurate metric rule . . . (remembering that the US was going to go metric while I was in high school; it's twenty-five years later and I don't know where to buy a good metric rule).

**papajam** · #25 (**permalink**) 10-09-2003, 08:53 PM

I'd think that one could (and many probably have) aligned a front end in their home garage with reasonable results but it takes more than just a ruler. Without previous front end experience, I would not recommend it. Plus, a home front end alignment does not take into account things like thrust angle or setback which can affect the front end alignment settings. A 4 wheel alignment machine compensates for these in addition to telling you what the rear alignment is which, if not correct, could result in the car 'dog tracking' and the car would handle, well, like a dog.
IMO, it's very cheap insurance to spend 50+ or so bux and have a 4 wheel alignment done at a reputable facility. Just make sure they follow the proper toe adjustment procedure!

**67GTV** · #26 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 12:21 AM

How can one be sure that a local shop is doing the alignment properly? Are there reference points in any of the manuals that we could bring to a shop?

(a classic case of RTFM?)

**papajam** · #27 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 11:38 AM

The best way, I think, is to know how to do a particular procedure and then watch the shop do it while tactfully providing instruction if/when necessary. Other than that, it's the shops reputation and customer satisfaction rate.
The only procedure specific to an Alfa 105/115 alignment is the toe procedure. Caster is straight forward and unless the car has adjustable upper control arms, the camber isn't adjustable anyway.
If you'd like the toe adjustment procedure, I'll right it up and post it.

BigSwede · #28 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 01:41 PM

With some simple tools you can adjust toe really well in your garage but first I would get all the other angles right at a shop that can do four wheel alignment as papajam pointed out.

**papajam** · #29 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 02:02 PM

Yep. The toe can be adjusted with simple hand tools and I've used the 'string' method on more than one occasion. However, toe is the last thing to be adjusted in an alignment. Adjusting the toe without knowing what the caster/camber are, is like stirring the can of paint after you've painted the fence.

BigSwede · #30 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 02:46 PM

I concur.