Questions about Track rod ends

[acalvi]

I'm replacing the Track rod ends of the Steering on my GT 1300 Junior 1970.

There are 6, 3 with LH Thread, 3 with RH Thread.
Of these 6, there are 2 outer and 4 inner.
On my car they came a little mixed.

The only difference I noticed between the 2 types is the lenght of the thread that connects to the arms, the threads to the rods are all the same (with LH and RH Thread).
Question: Which goes inside/outside ?

Further question: There are 2 qualities with different prices available: Lemforder and normal.
Are Lemforder OS and the others NOS?
What about the quality?
Did anybody have the opportunuty to compare the cheaper with the Lemforder ones?

About Nuts: Shall I use self locking nuts or the original with pin (only 3 of these are left)?

[yvesmontreal]

Alfa originally used Ehrenreich (NLA - swallowed by TRW) or Lemforder (now a ZF brand name) tie rod ends and balljoints on our cars. For some reason they wanted German components.

There are various brands currently available; some specialists say "don't use this or that brand" but I have no factual information about potential problems. Maybe they'll come forward. Never heard a thing against Lemforder though; they are available from UK suppliers who give you a choice: they offer both Lemforders (new production) and Italian joints, the former being twice as expensive. I would believe the reputable Alfa parts specialists know their stuff and have selected reliable products. I wouldn't trust automatically stuff that comes from a generic auto parts store.

The inner joints (should) have a smaller head. While both inner and outer ends are physically interchangeable, I would avoid using the smaller ends on the outside: this is a much tougher job, having to follow the suspension motions, and I would believe the smaller ball joint inside the end would either wear quickly or not be strong enough.

The other way around: some US suppliers have started selling outer ends only, substituting these bigger ends for the inner ones. One specialist tells me they sort of work on the inner rod, but cause a physical obstruction at full lock.

Regarding the nut, I prefer to stay with the castellated nut and cotter pin and not use a self locking nut. It's a real pain to remove a loose end and have the stiff self locking nut hold onto the stud and spin it indefinitely instead of coming off.

Just to cheer you up: follow this link for a discussion on Fiat ball joints:

Fiat 124 Ball Joints

[Andrew]

The big ones can hit the lower A-arm bushing end as they move past. Functionally they're all the same, but it can be clearance issue. I tend to put LH thread on the left and RH thread on the right of each link, but I don't think it really matters.

Andrew

[Alfar7]

Interesting that you use them I wonder why?

On the outer ends, at the arms normal ball joints are lower and reduce bump steer a bit more (and have no more movement by the way) and are safer. Not to mention less problemsome fitting and complying with rules requiring washers larger than the ball to prevent loss of complete steering.

On production cars not a good idea.

[jarrington]

The US Alfa parts places sell "Frap" (sounds like...) brand tie rod ends. Most folks consider them inferior to OEM, but given the mileage these cars typically see they're not a bad option for the price. As I recall Performatek has German made tie rod ends for a decent price - not too much more than the Frap stuff.

I used Frap on my old Spider and they definitely felt cheap compared to a NOS Alfa link I had on hand. Can't speak to longevity, though.

-Jason

[yvesmontreal]

"Frap" is indeed a major italian brand:

Frap - oem

They're original equipment makers, can't be that bad ...

[JoeCab]

We sell both Italian Frap brand and a German equivalent at a slightly higher price. The German ends are sometimes Lemfoerder brand, sometimes another German brand depending on availability.

Using the larger outer tie rods end only causes a clearance issue on a very, very small percentage of cars. The German ends are smaller, they work fine even in these cases.

[PMB_Performance]

I can't speak for Frap but when comparing some of the others vs. Lemfoerder I've found the cheaper ones (Read: China/eBay) have failed to mix the proper antioxidants into the rubber before vulcanization. The result is ozone cracking in just a few short months leaving your new bargins... worthless. I'd be willing to bet Frap and Lemfoerder are both exempt from this.

This "does" happen OFTEN with cheap tie rod parts. Get OEM or Lemfoerder. You will be money ahead in the long run. I've "never" had a Lemfoerder boot crack and, I've seen some that are 30+ years old.