Roundtails - time to subdivide?

[Biba69]

I have mixed emotions the nays had the vote. I agree regarding the yet one more forum to go through, but sure would be nice to have had one if a question comes up specific to these cars.

Since I've somehow managed to specialize in restoring '69 Spiders, I have to agree there are a lot of mechanical / hydraulic differences between the Duetto and the Round-Tail (my version of the word). Must admit I don't even have a good Duetto shop manual or any parts catalogues. I have both the Euro and US parts catalogues for the 1750's.

I fully agree with Beatle, Everyone should identify what their car is in the Subject heading. Makes a big difference if someone simply says "Spider fuel problem". On the other hand it might be a universal problem such as rust in the gas tank combined with clogged fuel filters.

Using the clutch, mentioned above, as another example, I'm pretty sure the Duetto clutch is mechanically actuated? However, if someone has a frozen clutch, the solution is also pretty much universal.

I Would like to see a cut-off between the end of the Spica and beginning of the electronic era regarding Spiders. Virtually all of their problems are Bosch fuel injection related problems or "how does the switch for the interior light work?" Personally I could care less.

Biba

[GTD]

Quote:

I Would like to see a cut-off between the end of the Spica and beginning of the electronic era regarding Spiders

[Biba69]

Alfista Sapien / All, perhaps splitting between the end of the Spica era and the beginning of the Bosh one "might" be a starting point.

On the other hand...one of my quotes (though suspect other's might have said the same) was, "...but sure would be nice to have had one if a question comes up specific to these cars."

Is there any way it could be drilled into that / this groups head Not to ask universal Spider, let alone universal Alfa, questions or comments on this quite exclusive forum?

Yeah, it might well be one of the least visited forums, but doesn't mean should someone be working their buns off on a particular aspect specific to one of the (various) types of Round-Tails and run into serious problems it might not be a godsend. And, yes, I certainly have myself in mind when I say this. However will also add feel I could also, hopefully, add some pretty good information to someone "in need".

Terribly unfair, since I came very late to the party (once again) but if Alfista Sapien is willing to act as a bit of a monitor and not let this (assuming everyone agrees this should be the emphasis) turn into a more general Spider forum, then I certainly would be up for a new vote.

Just stopped to think what the flaws in this proposal might be, and admit there are a few. What if someone doesn't know if their question isn't Duetto / Round-Tail specific? Dunno. What if someone wants to "modify" or are thinking of an "aftermarket" change and ask for advice? Sort of have an idea here, but don't have it nailed down.

Another, oh yeah, whilst I like my "spelling" of Round-Tail, let's agree on just one should my very modest modification to the original concept be accepted. However I do feel a Duetto is a 1600 (though realize the name was dropped before the 1750's came out). Not sure exactly when, but does it really matter? Duetto / Round-Tail, Roundtail, RoundTail, or if one is inclined for a universal name - Osso di Seppia. Regarding the latter, had birds (in a cage) for years and it is a pretty darn descriptive name. On further thought, if the forum was named "the Osso di Seppia Forum", might keep the riff-raff (chopped back guys) out. Kinda kidding?

Biba

[beatle_bayly]

Don't native Italians call 'em all DUETTOs ?

[Biba69]

Never having been to Italy, I'm not sure what name they use. Interestingly in the English version of the Italian book "Alfa Romeo Duetto Spider", the author, Giancenzo Madaro, states, "The name Duetto lasted no more than a year, and often it was actually replaced by the factory nickname "Osso di Seppia"-"Cuttlefish Bone", which it earned thanks to the form of the tail and the lenticular section bodywork."

I'm not saying this is a definitive answer, but something to consider.

Also remember the US version, among other differences, received the Spica fuel injection and looking at my "Euro" 1750 parts manual, it seems "all else" only received one brake booster (lucky you).

Meaning the US version was a fair bit more different than just enlarging the engine roughly 150 cc's.

Again when the same author comments on the US version he calls it an "Osso di Seppia" - not a Duetto. Later he refers to it as a 1750 Veloce. To the best of my knowledge there was not a US 1750 which wasn't a Veloce.

Biba

[ossodiseppia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatle_bayly Don't native Italians call 'em all DUETTOs ?

[Alex Csank]

Actually guys, the Duetto name was never an official name. It was just the nickname given to the Spider after a contest in which the name Duetto won. It would have been used, but some other company said no, as they had the Volvo 'Duett', I think.

In any event, the general rule seems to be that (in English language countries anyway) the 66/67 1600 Spider is called Duetto. The 1600 Spiders were not produced (much) in 68 or 69. In 68, Alfa went to the 'Spider 1750 Veloce' and the 'Spider 1300 Junior' (these were available in all but the US market). The US emissions restrictions necessitated that Alfa did not import any Spiders into the US in 68. They added the SPICA injection system and were able to meet the emissions regulations and began importing those cars in 69. In the rest of the world, there were Spider 1750 Veloces and Spider 1300 Juniors available in 1968 and 1969. Both of these cars were equipped with carbs; some had Webers, some had Dellortos and some even had Solex units.

The round-tail was not very well received by the automotive press at the time and so by 1970, Alfa (and Pininfarina) redesigned the car, giving it sleek door handles, a steeper rake to the windshield, a better top mechanism and a Kammtail, which was more popular and actually more aerodynamic. It also reduced the smell of exhaust fumes inside the car.

Today, in Italy, they refer to any Spider 105/115 as a Duetto. In the remainder of the world, Duetto seems to be reserved for the 1600 cars. Europeans tend to call the 66-69 body style 'Osso-di-Seppia'. The other terms are less well-accepted, unofficial and probably sort of like calling a car a 'Fetta.

This info is a distillation of my research, which includes Fusi, and several books by an assortment of authors, Wille Roos Roundtail Website, etc.

I could be wrong...but I think I have a pretty good grasp on the deal.

[Biba69]

Interesting that even though the polls have closed on Alfista Sapien's original call to arms (so to speak) - "Roundtails - time to subdivide?" many of us are still hanging around the polling station.

I only brought up the name bit wondering what it would have been called, which sparked even more interest.

On the other hand - think about it...who else do you have to share those wonderful stories and questions regarding, "What the heck do you do with the top's damnable floating bow?" Or, "The steel marbles just fell out of my seat runners." Your wife? I strongly doubt it.

So just for fun, even though the majority said no, I'm going to throw up some of the possible names which it "might" have been called:

Spider (Series 1)
Spider (1966-1969)
Spider (Duettos)
Spider (Roundtails)
Spider (Duettos / Roundtails)
Osso di Seppia's

Biba

[MrT]

Any time someone posts to this thread, the bb system "bangs the gong," so to speak, by putting out notices that someone has just posted. The name issue appeals to enough people to keep the thread going. I think people as a species just like naming things. Probably a holdover from the first task God gave Adam.

[JudgeDredd]

Oh yes, and we could separate them by color, tire pressure, number of presets on the radio... Absurd, isn't it? To quote a late 20th Century Philospher and Prophet, "why can't we just all get along"? *Sniff*

[coda tronca]

Right on Judgedreadd! Rodney King said it best... Wouldnt everyone agree at this point that it would best to stop wanking and get back to the business of fixing, improving and otherwise enjoying our Alfas? Happy summer to all.

[JudgeDredd]

CT, you said it!!! And I love your collection of toys. If I had that many, I'd never find the time for posting, LOL. Would love to see pics of any/all of them.

[Vivace]

Keep them all together. They have much in common as far as technical / mechanical questions. If I have a spider floor construction question, anyone who has done it on any spider can answer. If I have a specific Duetto construction or trim question, I can ask the overall group or go to the Restoration section. I have learned a great deal from reading the general spider information. If it's about Bosch FI or something, I just pass by.

MG

[elite38868]

Mine has 9 presets....oh wait, i dont have a duetto, does that still count...

[JudgeDredd]

Oh great, that's one more BB we have to create, "Those with 9 Presets in an Alfa other than a Duetto". Sheesh.