88 Spider Veloce Starter Advice Please

[vf31rhill]

PROBLEM - 88 SPIDER VELOCE, STARTER BEGAN TO MAKE SERIOUS NOISES. I REMOVED FOR LOCAL REBUILD.

R & R starter for local rebuilt by top Memphis auto/industrial rebuilder. They rebuilt starter, replacing with new OEM Bosch parts the gear reduction drive and solonoid, plus bushings/brushes and whatever else they do. Starter looked absolutely new upon return to me.

This starter is the late Bosch small diameter starter.

When I removed the starter it had the 3 hole nose spacer, but the center bolt was missing. When I replaced the starter I ordered the special fat shouldered center bolt from Rezdok (DeNoya Trading in OK). Louis said that he did not think I needed that special center bolt on an 88, but sent it anyway. Special bolt would not fit starter nose hole(s) and I reinstalled with 3 identical OEM starter bolts I also got from Rezdoc and which are identical with the other 2 I originally took off with my starter.

After reinstall, starter works but makes a very distince gear drive noise, much louder than I would have expected. (this noise in no way similiar to original failure noise). A friend who knows OTR diesels but zero about Alfas, listened to starter operation and surprised me by saying that he thought the drive was either engauging the teeth on the ring gear too far in, or not engauging them enough. He suggested I shim the starter away from the bell housing. I told him it already was shimmed away from the bellhousing. He said in that case, remove the shim. As we all know, this is easier said than done.

My question to all you is, should the 88 use the starter nose shim (which came on the car), or not (as Rezdoc says). My reproduction copy of original manual covers multiple years but is vague on this subject. One illustration does show the shim, but in no special context. I don't mind redoing the R & R, but I would like to get it correct in the next attempt. No third redo, if you don't mind. Opinions - Advice? I want it right, regardless of how it sounds. I am thinking original failure may have boggered the ring gear teeth some.
Thanks, Robert

[Bob Sacamano]

All I can tell you is that my '87 has both the shoulder bolt and shim in place. Had it apart a few years ago (mentioned before in a recent "starter" thread), and replaced what was the original starter with a used replacement from APE. I just looked at that original starter, which has a broken nose, and it indeed has that shouldered bolt in the middle position, too. Hope that helps.

I've got the small reduction-gear starters on all 3 of my Spiders ('74, '87, '92) and they do have a different sound than the older starters, but I'm sure you're aware of that difference, and it's probably not what's you're hearing. Not quite like a Chrysler, but close.

[Bob Sacamano]

Just another thought - I wonder if that's just not the right starter? There are lots of similar apps. I remember seeing a Ferrari F40 starter on eBay, with lots of pics from all angles, and it looked just like a Spider starter. Couldn't tell from the pics if it had the larger hole in the middle, though. IIRC, starting bid as $2500!

[papajam]

I just had a look at the 1975-1981, 1986 & 1988 parts microfiche. All three fiche show a shoulder bolt, part number 105.41.05.310.00 (60516710) and a shim, 105.12.05.312.00 (60516261).
If the shoulder bolt does not fit your starter, Bob's suggestion that it's the wrong starter may be correct. Unfortunately, the parts fiche do not list the Bosch number so I can't help there but perhaps someone has a known correct starter who could post the Bosch number.

[Bob Sacamano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajam I just had a look at the 1975-1981, 1986 & 1988 parts microfiche. All three fiche show a shoulder bolt, part number 105.41.05.310.00 (60516710) and a shim, 105.12.05.312.00 (60516261). If the shoulder bolt does not fit your starter, Bob's suggestion that it's the wrong starter may be correct. Unfortunately, the parts fiche do not list the Bosch number so I can't help there but perhaps someone has a known correct starter who could post the Bosch number.