Just Bought an '89 Spider

ChrisCorso · #1 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 09:22 PM

Hi,

Just bought an '89 Spider for 2500. It didn't run, but previous owner assured me it ran when parked(I figured, piece of cake...minor repairs and ready to roll, I may have been taken). So, I isolated problems to fuel pumps...replaced those...found that the fuel manifold was very leaky(looked like a sprinkler) and the cold start injector plumbing was not connected (big fuel leak). So, I corrected all those leaks and still no dice...checked timing...distributor wasn't even finger tight.

So, I set the timing per the manual (luckily car came with the shop manual), but still no dice. It seems to be backfiring through the exhaust. If this were a muscle car, I would swear this was a timing issue. I set and reset the timing and checked the firing order per the shop manual and it is dead on, so it can't be a timing issue, can it? Also, I noticed that the tach does not show any RPM while I am cranking it...could this be related to my problem (maybe the ignition computer is not seeing RPM)?

I read a bunch on a web site about the L-Jetronic injection and the site indicates that air leaks on the output side of the MAF sensor will cause all kinds of problems...does that include backfiring in the exhaust? My plan for tomorrow is to replace all the air hoses with new hoses and clamps and try again, but I suspect I will have the same problems. I think I need to look more at wether the computer and tach are seeing the RPM while I am cranking. How would I go about doing this?

I read something about the flywheel having to be properly aligned. Is there any way to confirm this alignment? If it is misaligned, is there a way to rotate the distributor to compensate?

Thanks Much!
Cheers,
Chris

**lgbalfa** · #2 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 09:23 PM

congratulations.

please post some pics.

**SpiderWebb** · #3 (**permalink**) 05-20-2008, 10:28 PM

A simple thing to check: Is the spark plug wiring 180 degrees out of phase, backwards?

I made that mistake the first time I wired mine up and it did that. Backfires, spitting but trying to start. The distributor spins clockwise. I thought it went the other way. I was convinced I was right and it took days to finally realize my error.

On my 50/50 chance of getting it right, I lost.

It's just a thought.

**Tifosi** · #4 (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisCorso

I read something about the flywheel having to be properly aligned. If it is misaligned, is there a way to rotate the distributor to compensate?

ChrisCorso · #5 (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 03:32 PM

I have an idea of what might be the problem. I checked through that list on that web site today. All was well except the VVT solenoid...that was bound up, I remove it...squirt it with electrical cleaner and applied power to it with it out of the car a few times to free it up. Now it is cool.

I was getting pretty frustrated and just recheckign everything when I decided to see if it has the correct plugs. The plugs it has are new from PO...but I wasn't sure if they were correct. I have Bosch Super Plus WR7DC+ plugs in it right now. I think those are resistor plugs. I checked this BB and the recommended plug for a stock engine is the NGK BP7ES...non resistor plugs. Maybe that is making the difference. I know my old Mustang wouldn't run at all with Bosch plugs...put some Champions in and it ran great! I have my fingeres crossed!

**Tifosi** · #6 (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 05:11 PM

Bosch usually denotes an 'R' in the part # if it's a resistor plug, like BP7ESR.

I don't even know what a WR7DC+ is, but it sure sounds special

While you're at it, check the gap.

Vintre · #7 (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 06:40 PM

Congratulations and welcome to the wonderful world of Alfa ownership!

Sounds like a typical start

Post some pictures when you can.

ChrisCorso · #8 (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 08:37 PM

Hi,

I put a new set of NGKs in and no luck. I can crank and crank and crank (with squirting starter fluid into the intake) and every now and then it will fire in the exhaust.

So, I had fuel and I had spark(watched it sparking from the coil to the coil wire to verify)...but still no decent ignition...has to be a timing thing. I figure the only way this is possible is for the harmonic damper F to not be lined up with the mark on the distributor. I'm guessing this could happen if someone removed the distributor and did not reinstall it properly...does this seem reasonable?

Anyhow, with my random guesses, I got a decent backfire that blew the intake off the engine. I figured with it this far apart, I might as well take the fuel manifold out and clean all the injectors...possibly adjust the valves while I am in there and find actual TDC and see if it matches the damper. While I am at it, do you guys have any suggestions? I'll also be doing lots of grease removal...it is very dirty down there. And, I can test the remaining sensor I couldn't reach with the manifolds installed! At a minimum, the engine will look nicer once I have it back together!

Cheers,
Chris

**SpiderWebb** · #9 (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 09:09 PM

A true Alfisti. A problem turned into an opportunity. I like that!

**BattleBug** · #10 (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

I know my old Mustang wouldn't run at all with Bosch plugs...put some Champions in and it ran great! I have my fingeres crossed!

ChrisCorso · #11 (**permalink**) 05-22-2008, 06:32 AM

I actually have a manual...the car came with what looks like a factory shop manual for the '85-'89 Spider. The english in it is iffy and the schematics are not too good. That said to set the timing to the F. I tried the F originally per that manual and later I used the web site which said to set it to the P. Oddly enough, after setting it to the F, I rotated the crank to the P and the timing was still set in the same spot at the distributor...so F or P didn't seem to make any difference.

With it set at the F or P, it ends up with my rotor pointing toward the 4 O'Clock position on the distributor, so I turned the distributor so the mark on it was lined up with the contact of the rotor. I put the cap back on, 1342 firing order...1 being where the rotor was at that moment. Cap fit nice and snug, no movement at all. Cap and rotor are new.

I'm going to pull #1 plug and stick a scredriver or something down there while I turn the engine over by hand to see if #1 is actually at the top of it's stroke at or near the P or F...I'll also take a look at those cams lobes.

If someone removed the distributor and then put it back in...is it possible that the alignment marks will no longer match up? If someone misadjusted the cams in the past(like if they over tightened the rockers or something), is it possible that the exhaust valves may be remaining open?

Cheers,
Chris

ghnl · #12 (**permalink**) 05-22-2008, 07:58 AM

I suggest a soda straw instead of a screwdriver as an eL-Cheapo TDC finder. (stiff enough to work and won't ruin anything internally)

It is entirely possible for the distributor's drive to be installed incorrectly. I suspect ~ 1/2 of the Spiders out there have their distributors 180 degrees off. Find TDC (on compression!), see where the rotor aims and call that #1, then attach the spark plugs to the distributor cap in the correct firing order from there (1-3-4-2 clockwise rotation) and you're done setting the timing. From that point forwards the computer decides when to fire the plugs, the distributor is just a 4 way switch to send the coil's output to the right cylinder.

P.S. make sure the distributor is fully seated into the block. The drive dog is slightly offset and it should only fit fully in one position. Also make sure the distributor's drive isn't broken. Grab the rotor and try to turn it (with the distributor fully seated into the block). It shouldn't turn - just wiggle a little from the play from the drive gears off the crankshaft.

dghii · #13 (**permalink**) 05-22-2008, 01:52 PM

Good catch on the dizzy being 180 out. Had that in an '82 spider years ago...car was running fine but on a long trip started to run a bit rough. I got to my destination and the next day, while merging with freeway traffic, the car simply died. I towed the car to a local garage and much fussing, the mechanic finally realized that the dizzy was installed incorrectly.
The telltail sign was a smalll oil leak from the dizzy shaft. I'd bet my last $ the car had been delivered from the factory this way as it only had about 25K miles at the time.

HonoluluHawk · #14 (**permalink**) 05-22-2008, 04:36 PM

Two words: ground wire.

ChrisCorso · #15 (**permalink**) 06-01-2008, 03:39 PM

Ground wires all seem to be intact at the engine. Ran an extra ground wire from the battery - to the block to test the theory, no luck.

Anyhow, with the intake off, I was able to get access to the TTS sensor. The troubleshooting page says that below 86F, that should read 0 ohms resistance. Mine is reading about 30 ohms and it is 80 degrees outside. I think I have found my problem. I ordered a new one.

Also, my distributor/harmonic damper marks and #1 piston do line up together...so that is all good. I have my timing set correct. Waiting for sensor to arrive...should have it running next weekend!