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05-15-2008, 10:17 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern NY, USA
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by WopJob
How about getting rid of the thing alltogether and venting the head to the athmosphere via a generic check valve and hose that reaches the ground?
you would have to plug the oil return, vacuum nipple, and vapor return to the throttle body.
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If a check valve were thrown into the mix and it was a really effective one, there's a very good chance that there'd be a pretty huge negative pressure build up in the base which can do funny things with how any vapors get sucked through the other routes they'd normally take while the pressure tries to find a way to equalize up to and including drawing A/F mixture down past the piston rings into base where it would end up mixing with the oil while helping to wash the liners clean of oil film on it's way by (granted that's an extreme, but it can certainly happen)
Remove it and block things off totally and you end up with excess base pressure and no place for vaporized contaminants to be drawn out and burned off which changes the acidity levels of the oil in general.
Remove it and do the drain hose bit and you get a drastic drop in base pressure and that hose pointed at the ground will turn into a nasty slobbery ikky mess maker as there's no return/collection or reburn for any of the expunged vapor so it drains pretty heavily. (at the higher working RPM's, it produces enough vapor/mist/fog to actually wet a good %-age of the undercarriage and also make this really goofy looking puff of smoke effect up underneath while you're up on it. No, really, I've tried it and it's nasty  )
The only other solution which still changes base pressure and allows some vapor into the atmosphere, but doesn't make a mess would be an aftermarket 'snot tank'/catch tank with an air filter on it ($$) to allow the base pressure air to pulse at neurtal pressure and a return line at the bottom to feed the fluids back into the crankcase like they do now (unless you want to drain it with a petcock every X days anyway) connected to the cam cover via big bore hose.
That's the whole tweak of it: the factory vapor seperator is far more than just a vent, it's a deliberate device/system that's a much bigger part of how things work overall than the systems as found on older V8s making it far more difficult to circumvent effectively/effciently.
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05-15-2008, 12:34 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: augusta ks.
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there should not be a very large amount of vacuum or pressure in the seperator, since the large hose from the bottom goes to the aircleaner box. on the series 2 spiders the vacuum connection is from the idle adjust/vacuum manafold on top of the intake manafold. not much vacuum there, more of a little vacuum and an intake thru the seperator for the idle circuit. not sure how they do it on the later ones tho. there should be very little "pulsing" of crankcase pressure since two pistons are going up and two down at the same time, should cancel the pulsing effect, unlike my two cylinder motorcycle, two up at the same time makes a lot of vacuum, two down at the same time makes a lot of pressure.
cliff
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05-15-2008, 04:34 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: clearwater FL
Posts: 1,207
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Its not Holey crap, nor Holly crap. Its Holy crap. And its always describing the vapor separator..........LOL!!
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05-15-2008, 05:40 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Goldsboro, NC
Posts: 203
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I beg to differ...If one takes a handful of poo and flings it against the wall. It has holes..many holes. Holey. Much like my former OVS...engine porn follows
Gotta love the non-matching coil wire and the mini bungie cord. Personalized.
Paul
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Paul
'86 Spider Graduate
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05-15-2008, 05:47 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern NY, USA
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A bit of gasket maker around the seam will let you stick that AFM cover down and lose the bungie while still letting you get back in if you want/need to without resorting to the heavy duty tools. 
The coil wire is just a shame though  |
05-15-2008, 05:49 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern NY, USA
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Say......
You don't happen to have a intact yellow sticker on the inner fender near the alternator junction block showing the connections that's intact do you?
JohnM is looking for a pic to use in reproduction sticker kits he's fiddling with.
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05-15-2008, 07:21 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Camlachie Ontario Canada
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Hey Paul,
Are those S2 or S4 exhaust manifold(s)?
What is the grey thing behind the brake booster?
How did you do the valve cover?
Beutiful detailing Paul!
TTFN Elio
Last edited by Elio Comello; 05-15-2008 at 07:33 PM.
Reason: missing sentence
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05-15-2008, 07:55 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,360
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Holly crap, what a clean engine.
I got ride of my vapor separator, but I did vent it down for a while. As a note when I got the car back the guy that installed it hooked it up backwards and I got to see all the water/vapor shoot out the top of it on start up. It was amazing to me how much air shot out of it at start up and while it was running.
Easy to see how they rust out so badly.
I have a snot tank now that I have to drain every once and a while but I'm planning to "T" into the dip stick rubber connection.
Last edited by msiert; 05-15-2008 at 07:59 PM.
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05-15-2008, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern NY, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elio Comello
What is the grey thing behind the brake booster?
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05-16-2008, 06:57 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Goldsboro, NC
Posts: 203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elio Comello
Hey Paul,
Are those S2 or S4 exhaust manifold(s)?
How did you do the valve cover?
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The ex manifolds are S2. I used Techline's Colorgard hi-temp coating--not sure yet if I'm pleased with the results--seems to be flaking off somewhat.
The cam cover is a standard late S3/S4. After bead blasting, I filled the holes for the VVT, ground away the extraneous extra boss and a couple of unused tabs. I used my 1/4 sheet sander to cut & polish the ALFA ROMEO text. The paint is Eastwood's wrinkle black--looks good but is very fragile, I'm going to redo with powder coat. The knobs I polished by chucking them in a drill and using 220 to 2000 grit. Hit them with a coat of clear to preserve shine. All other screws are SS allen type with new SS washers. I'll post a pic or two later tonite.
Paul
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Paul
'86 Spider Graduate
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05-16-2008, 08:32 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA, Earth
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YOU are a resourceful guy, Paul.....good on ya!
David
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05-16-2008, 07:10 PM
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Certified Oldschooler
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston & Spicewood, Texas; CA before that
Posts: 539
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When last I cleaned my S1 '69 it was dirty but not solid or anything. Nice work on the replacement indeed! Good reminder to put that thing on a semi-annual flush on the maintenance roster. I had a modified Webber carb'd 69 Berlina once that had an official looking vent that came out of the oil filler cap and went to ground, no check valve or breather. The normal breather off the head was plugged.
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Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A.
Now - '69 1750 Spider Veloce ( pictures)( and more) 10562.1480323 (since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!);
- '88 Bayliner, 305 CI Cvy (for those really hot days!)
Gone - '69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
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06-02-2008, 07:03 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Goldsboro, NC
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It's been 500 miles since installing my "low-rent" OVS.
While doing my 500 mile re-torque, I cleaned it out and checked for defects. Process took about 15 minutes: cleaned filter element with K&N cleaner & dried thoroughly, wiped out can with a paper towel on a stick.
Some observations:
1. Construction holding up well.
2. Oil drain tube is in fact draining.
3. No wonder these OE things cr@p out!! If you think your old one is OK you're fooling yourself. I'm wondering about a catch-can arrangement, sealed to external atmosphere with vacuum integrity, yet easily purged--any ideas?
Pix follow:
So easy its trivial--pro'lly do this every oil change.
A bit of goo  Not as bad as it looks--JB Weld looks similar. I have to think this is the norm though...
More engine porn...
The big valves make a difference I can feel 
I thought this was a good idea--to install head with exhaust manifold attached & torqued. Didn't work so well as the 1-4 branch needed about 1/3" more clearance from the steering box, bummer!
Fingers crossed I get another 500-5000 miles out of this contraption...
Paul
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Paul
'86 Spider Graduate
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06-02-2008, 10:31 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Northern NY, USA
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That workbench must go like stink now.
How do you keep it from spilling it's contents all over the place and hitting the walls in such a confined area? |
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'84 manufacture - '85 MY Spider Graduate 
