1st Time Buyer looking for tips

[NYLK]

Hi to all! I'm looking at an '86 Spider Graduate this weekend. It will (hopefully) be my first Alfa. Is there any tips or hints you guys (or gals) can give me when I test drive and assess this car? I've heard that certain years/models can be quirky. What should I be looking for to avoid major problems down the road? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.
Dave

[GTD]

WELCOME to the AlfaBB!
If your interested in any Alfa's, "The Alfa Bible" by Pat Braden is a great start. There's a chapter devoted to: what to look for.
Your sure to get plenty of tips from boardmembers but ultimately the decision is yours.
Take plenty of pictures and post them for more opinions.

[DaveC]

Try this site.

Spider FAQ

One of the best articles on Alfa Spiders I've read on the net.
Dave

[Roadtrip]

Biggest Factor --- Rust, Rust, Rust

1. Rust - check rocker panels, around the wheel well, edges and front and back. Spare tire wheel well in trunk (remove spare to inspect). Floors under carpet (also look from underneath the car).
2. Transmission - weak synchromesh on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears.
3. Rear axle - check for leaking pinion seal and any noise coming from the axle. Get up to speed, put the trans in neutral and listen closely.
4. Engine. Should start easily from cold and run well. Run it up to redline and make sure it pulls nice and strong. I like a compression test, but many POs won't do it for you. I deduct $ if they don't know. Check the engine compartment. Is it clean? If not, the motor probably wasn't taken care of either. Check for rotted/split hoses that could cause air leaks and poor running. Make sure the engine doesn't overheat at standing idle. Oil pressure at 2500 rpm or so should be 50 psi and maybe as low as 10 at idle on a worn motor. The oil pressure warning light should never come on with the engine running. Check for leaks, especially around the bottom edge of the cylinder head. Check to make sure the cat converter isn't beat up and the mufflers look and sound good.
5. Check the top. Rear window should be clear and the top should fit well. If you can drive the car with the top down AND up. You'll hear a lot more problem mechanical noises with the top up.

Body condition and paint are the most important things to me. They are by far the most expensive to have repaired.

Very general costs:

1. Paint $1,500 - 4,000
2. Trans overhaul (not including R&R labor) $800
3. Engine overhaul $3-4k at shop or $1.5k for parts and DIY
4. Inner rocker repair BIG$$$$
5. Replacement used axle $500
6. Convertible top, $200-300 plus installation
7. New seat covers $300-700 depending on vinyl or leather
8. New dashboard $500
9. New floor panels $200 a side, plus labor to weld them in.
10. New spare tire well - $200 plus labor to weld it in.


Don't "fall in love" with the car. Look at it from a cold perspective. Don't expect it to be perfect, but don't let the owner tell you that rocker rust and floor rust isn't a big deal and is cheap to fix. And remember, it's almost ALWAYS cheaper in the long run to spend a lot more for an excellent car than to buy a marginal one and fix it.

[boggissimo]

Hi NYLK, welcome to the BB. I bought my first Alfa just over a year ago (79 Spider Veloce) and have had great fun with it (both driving and learning). I can't give you any specific advice that you won't find with some searching of the BB archive and also the Spider FAQ. What I can suggest is that you take your time and don't rush into buying the first one you see - there are actually plenty of Spiders around so you can still shop around until you find a gem.

The most important thing is rust, as most people will tell you. I was lucky to find a California car with virtually none, but you should check very carefully. Also if you can get hold of your local Alfa owner's club, there might be someone able to come and inspect the car with you... check the local chapters on the AROC USA website to see if there's something near you - or post a message in one of the AlfaBB regional forums if you can find a relevant one.

Good luck!

[Farace]

I agree with everything said but thought I'd emphasize a couple of points and add a couple more. The Alfa Romeo Owner's Bible, as stated, will go over pretty much everything you need to look for and even rates problems by how serious they are. It's also worth looking at Joe Benson's Alfa Romeo Buyer's Guide, especially if you're not familiar with the differences between the various series of Spider.

What John said about a better car being cheaper in the long run--I double emphasize that. I've had my Spider a bit over a year now. In fixing it up, I've spent much more than I would have on a better example to begin with. Unfortunately, by the time I figured that out, I was too far in to stop. Don't feel you have to "rescue" a mistreated Alfa unless you have extra money you don't have any other use for.

If possible, bring along a friend that's familiar with Alfas. Besides everything stated, have them look to see if parts are missing. Everything is available; everything turns up on eBay eventually, but you'll be surprised at what you can end up spending, and what percentage of that total is attributed to shipping charges. I had no idea all the parts my car was missing. I'm sure there are still some I don't know about. Every so often I'm alerted to another. They sure add up.

[Bill77]

Dave,

Good luck on your search for a Spider. I have found this bulletin board to be the best resource of all. Any questions I have had were promptly answered by someone more knowledgeable. Many of us check here almost daily to see what's new.

Welcome aboard.

[NYLK]

First off, I'd like to thank all of you for your time and the wealth of knowledge you've shared. At least, now I have a good basis for what I'll be looking for in this Alfa. I've found some of the books and literature at my local library. (Gonna be like cramming for school, again). I didn't realize rust was such a big issue. It is with any used car, is the Spider any different?
Again, Gentlemen, Thank You! I'll post some pix after I look at the car and seek your input!
Take care. Dave

[Roadtrip]

Rust is always a big issue with Alfas. The story goes that Alfa bought cheap steel from eastern Europe during the bad old communist days. On top of that, they didn't rustproof the cars at all. Some arrive on the US dock rusted already. Combine that with neglectful owners and you have a rustbucket. I'm a big fan of rustproofing. I Ziebart'd my 89 Dodge Caravan and it still has zero rust and looks almost new.

If the owner will give you compression values, a good mid-life engine will be around 140-160 psi, all cylinders within 10% of each other.

[Bill77]

I pulled the front wheelhouse panel off my Spider (the panel behind the front tires) and was shocked to find bare, uncoated metal !!! It's amazing these cars are still around at all !!!

[Rosso Veloce]

NYLK,

I second Boggissimo's suggestion to enlist the help of a local Alfa member - it can be invaluable to have that second set of eyes, especially if those eyes have seen similar situations before. Another suggestion is to call the current owner before your visit to see where they take it for service. Call that mechanic and see if you can bring it by during your visit this weekend.

As has been said before, these cars are pretty straightforward, and parts are plentiful. So mechanical issues are not usually showstoppers. But a rusty body is a lousy project.

Be patient - your dream car is out there. Best of luck, and welcome to the club!

[jrflyboyVP2]

Hi all, I live in Texas and am lucky to have a relatively rust free 76 spider project. I would like to keep it that way. What type of rust proofing do you recommend? I have heard of Ziebart before, but not sure if it is available in Texas. Has anyone done DIY rust proofing. I expect the inside of the rockerpanels need to be sprayed at least. Sorry, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but rust seems to be the biggest concern for you all.

Regards, John Reinschmidt
76 spider Austin Texas

[chasking]

I have an 86 Graduate and it has been a great car. Keep in mind, though, that there are a LOT of them out there, so if this one has problems don't hesitate to pass on it.

A huge issue when considering an Alfa purchase is whether you can/want to work on the car yourself. Spiders are pretty easy to work on, and parts are not tough to get, but mechanics who really know the cars are uncommon. If you do your own maintenance, they can be relatively economical, but if you will be relying on others, competent maintenance may cost a bit more. If you will not be doing your own maintenance, you should find a good mechanic FIRST, to make sure that any problems that come up can be dealt with. The car is almost 20 years old, after all, however well maintained it may have been. People on this board can no doubt recommend somebody in your area.

One other simple thing to look for: check under the radiator cap and check the dipstick; if you see oil floating in the coolant, or gooey chocolate-milk-shake looking stuff on the dipstick, that indicates a bad head gasket. Not terminal, but maybe not the first thing you'll want to do when you get a new Alfa. At the very least, a powerful bargaining point.

[GTD]

Hello John!
If you go to this thread:
www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=5279
and read it, then click on the link below Beatle Bayly's info at the bottom, you should get an idea of the problem of "rust-proofing" these cars. There are areas you can't get to without cutting holes in the body!

If you ever find that "perfect" rust-proofer, there are plenty of customers waiting, here on the AlfaBB!

[jrflyboyVP2]

Also look for signs of recently changed oil and coolant. When I bought my 76 spider, it had fresh (as in new) oil and coolant, so I missed the fact that it had a cracked cylinder head. In hindsight I could have caught it by noticing the swollen and soft radiator hoses. They tend to swell from the inside (oil contaminates them from the inside) and will feel somewhat softer to squeeze (engine not running). Also you can open up the radiator cap (engine and coolant cold) and run your finger around the underside of the filler neck. If it comes out with black/brown gunk on it, than the headgasket or head at some time leaked oil into coolant. Another tell tail sign is if the heater dosn't put out much or any heat (heater core and/or valve clogs from gunk). If it is just the head gasket (oil o-rings) it isn't too difficult or expensive to fix if you DIY, assuming your head isn't cracked or warped.

I got my 76 spider for only $1800 which I thought was a real bargain. It turned out to be a ridiculously expensive 76 spider (over $10k invested to date, and only half done). But I consder part of the cost tuiton on an alfa 101 education (still ongoing). In the end I hope to have at least a masters if not a PHD in Alfa like some of those on this board.

John