Help me diagnose this problem?

[IslandAlifista]

Hi everybody,

I'm a recent Alfa owner - an '83 Spider Veloce, in that rare light green colour you don't see too often around. Apparently pretty stock considering it came with original headlight covers, and has that downturned exhaust.. I'm in Victoria, BC - a student at the University here, working on my Economics and Business degree. I've been lurking the board for the past couple months and have to say thanks to the author of the wiring diagram - I had an issue with her not wanting to start, but figured out it was a bad connection with the fuse (eventually, with the help of said wiring diagram ) Anyhow on to the problem at hand..

Any ideas as to what I should take a look at would help - I'm not a mechanic, and a 'starving student' so please keep these in mind when coming up with any ideas..

She was running absolutely fine, brilliant, spectacular.. until one night when I did a lot of driving back and forth along the highway.. I was on my way home, so I had come back down to city speeds and noticed a strange sound eminating from the underside: It sounded like metal-on-metal scraping, but sounded cyclical.. I immediately pulled over and shut her off.. trying to start her again, all I got was horrible starter-grind, and rolling down a hill to roll-start didn't do anything either, all she would do is grind to a halt.. after rowing through all the gears, I finally felt something move and started her up again and limped home.. with this crazy noise that sounds to be coming from the gearbox.. description of the noise is as follows:

sounds like metal-on-metal rubbing together, not constantly, but in a cyclical pattern ('whissh-whissh-whissh' kind of noise). Next, it's linked to the engine rpms, but not exactly.. adding gas speeds up the noise, but it's delayed a bit.. kind of like when a turbo spools up.. say, when i up the rpms and then push in the clutch, the sound will 'spool' up and then 'spool' down a little delayed after engine rpms.. Additionally, pushing in the clutch takes away the noise a bit..

Now, this does seem to have an effect on starting the car, too.. starting her cold or hot sometimes gives me that starter-grind kind of noise.. the one way i was able to start her last was to put her into reverse and rock the car back and forth before being able to fire her up. Hoewever, this issue doesn't have an effect on performance of the car.. she still pulls fine, plenty of power and gear shifts are as they were before.. And the last time I took her out for a spin to warm her up, by the time i was coming home, (45 mins later, after sunset, cool air temperature) the noise had settled down, barely inaudible..

I greatly would appreciate *any* input, advice, things to check, things to get a mechanic to look at (ideas how to get a mechanic to do this for cheap or free would help too.. i hear they like beer? funny, so do i ), or ideas on what to replace, costs, etc..

Kudos to those of you still reading this essay, I look forward to hearing any and all replies. I haven't been driving her much, as I want to figure this out, and hopefully not damage anything further..

Thanks a ton, everybody!
-Mike in Victoria

[MrT]

I know you're feeling lonely there, and I can't help. But I heard your plaintive cry and sympathize with you.

But maybe I can suggest something after all. Could it be your clutch internals have lost their friction material (cracked off or delaminated)? Or maybe the throw-out bearing somehow? You probably ought to get under there with a flashlight before it gets any colder there.

Michael

[tubut]

Mike,

Two things you may want to look at is the ignition switch and the starter mechanism. Chances are that -- if the ignition switch stayed in the starting position -- the starter stayed engaged and may have been damaged. On the other hand, the spring that is supposed to retract the pinion drive in the starter may be broken -- meaning that the mechanism may have stayed engaged despite the ignition key having returned from the starting position to the "ignition on" position.

In both cases, the free-wheeling (or not so free-wheeling) starter would make a grinding noise that relates directly to the RPM. If the contacts open but the drive stays stuck after you shut of the engine, it is impossible to re-engage the starter. Rocking the car back and forth in gear obvioulsy would move the starter drive back and forth -- possibly enough to free it.

I suggest you you remove the starter and have it checked by a pro. Look at this problem soon. If the problem shifts from the starter to the ring on the flywheel, repair parts get more pricey (unless you have access to a parts car).

Good luck,

Ruedi

[jrflyboyVP2]

I have had similar sounds coming from my driveline, just under the floorboard between the seats. It turned out to be a bolt at the u-joint flange connecting the driveshaft to the tranny worked its way loose. I am not saying that is your problem, because that problem didn't affect the starting at all, just made strange noises. My starter grinds on ocassion anyway because the ring gear always stops in one of two positions on these engines and the teeth get worn. If I were you I would get some blocks (short 2x6's) of wood or something, drive the front wheels up on them and chock the rear wheels, so you can safely crawl under the car on your back. Grab the driveshaft and try to wiggle it back and forth, up and down, and rotate it both directions. Check for any play or loosness. There is a big bearing supporting the front part of the driveshaft, as well as a large rubber dougnut to take up torque changes. Check out all these components for loosness or wear first (easy and free to just look and assess). If these all look good, than the problem could be in the clutch or starter as stated above.

Good luck,
John