starter motor for '90 or '91 engine...???

[mac miller]

I have an Alfa engine (2L 4cyl). I believe it is out of an '90 or '91 spider, but I'm not absolutely, 100% positive.
I need to find the correct starter motor for this engine.
It has a 130 tooth flywheel.

Can anyone tell me how to positively identify the year of this engine???, identify the correct starter motor????, and/or locate the correct starter motor?

[pininfarina]

the starter for a 1990 to 1994 spider is alittle smaller,then the years before ,
but the older larger starters will work ( 1986 to 1989) on the newer engines if you have trouble finding one,,

[Tifosi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pininfarina the starter for a 1990 to 1994 spider is alittle smaller,then the years before , but the older larger starters will work ( 1986 to 1989) on the newer engines if you have trouble finding one

[pininfarina]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tifosi I politely beg to differ. Mine has the small starter, and after trying to replace it with the normal size that one would expect, all it did was grind the crap out of my ring gear. Ended up having to go collect my small dead starter that was turned in as a core when I bought the replacement and doing a total rebuild on it (which I just should have done to begin with) to have a proper working setup.

[mac miller]

Mr Pininfarina and Mr Tifosi, Thanks for the replies.

I am not normally an Alfa mechanic so I am not familiar with all of the various parts interchange options.... So far, my only information has come from the parts guys at International Auto Parts. They told me that some years had 130 tooth flywheels and some years had 131 tooth flywheels, which could be the cause of Mr Tifosi's grinding problem. I have determined that my engine has a 130 tooth flywheel. I'm not concerned about which starter I use, I just need one that works.

Mr Pininfarina, you said you have some of both types available. What would you and/or your mechanic recommend?? Could you give me the details of what you have available??

This website always has some guys that have real life experiences and answers to the technical problems that I have. Thanks!

This engine is being used in the following project.

[Tifosi]

Shouldn't you be push starting that anyway? You know, for the sake of historical accuracy and all

I believe the actual problem I had betwixt the starters was the bendix setup or nose cone. Both had the same # of teeth in the bendix gear proper, but there was some nuance or another that was making for a not so complete engagement.

BTW, do you have, or will you need the starter shim/spacer?

Better to know now then to find out later.

[mac miller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tifosi Shouldn't you be push starting that anyway? You know, for the sake of historical accuracy and all

[Tifosi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac miller If I can't find the proper starter setup, I may have to push start it

[Tifosi]

.......and you'll need the proper shoulder bolt for that hole up top.

[conedriver]

Hi Mac,

Neat project. Did you choose an Alfa engine because of the outward similarity to a Meyer Drake?

If your engine is either a 1990 or 91, among other things, it varies from earlier versions in that the original electronic fuel injection is Bosch Motronic instead of the Bosch L-Jetronic used earlier (SPICA mechanical fuel injection was used prior to Bosch). The presence of a 130 tooth flywheel and the engine year indicate you have a Motronic engine.

Regarding a starter; according the the IAP catalog, there are two starters for a 130 tooth flywheel. A traditional large direct drive electric motor version for 1972-74 cars, and a smaller gear drive version for 1990-94 Spiders. 131 tooth flywheels were used between these years. The later starter is smaller, said to be considerably lighter, and was original on your engine.

IAP doesn't offer the later starter, either new or rebuilt. However Centerline Centerline Alfa Romeo (888) 750-ALFA lists a rebuilt version for 1990-1994 for $245.00 (part #RS023, core charge $125.00).

Both International and Centerline are respected suppiers, and their services allow we Alfa owners to keep our cars running and maintained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac miller Mr Pininfarina and Mr Tifosi, Thanks for the replies. I am not normally an Alfa mechanic so I am not familiar with all of the various parts interchange options.... So far, my only information has come from the parts guys at International Auto Parts. They told me that some years had 130 tooth flywheels and some years had 131 tooth flywheels, which could be the cause of Mr Tifosi's grinding problem. I have determined that my engine has a 130 tooth flywheel. I'm not concerned about which starter I use, I just need one that works. Mr Pininfarina, you said you have some of both types available. What would you and/or your mechanic recommend?? Could you give me the details of what you have available?? This website always has some guys that have real life experiences and answers to the technical problems that I have. Thanks! This engine is being used in the following project.

[mac miller]

Tifosi, I have the proper shoulder bolt and "Thanks" for the starter shim template. I can use it to make whatever I need.

Conedriver, The Alfa 2L is purty much the standard engine for the good replica Indy roadsters, as you said, because it has the look of an OFFY and also because the exhaust is on the proper side for roadster installation.
My engine was acquired without intake and ignition systems so i have installed the 40 DCOE Webers and a Bosch 009 "points" distributor.
Thanks for the information about "Centerline"..... You can never have too many potential sources of info and parts.

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd be curious about a few things, mostly about getting the engine to run at its optimal level. How about a picture of it, to assist with the ID? For instance, the Bosch-injected engine (L-Jet and Motronic both) have variable intake cam timing. Without using the EFI and its computer, you'll have no cam timing changes, and fairly poor performance. Same goes for the ignition, BTW, and the advance curve on a Bosch 009 is far from correct for any Alfa 2L engine. That's not to say these issues can't be worked around, but as things have been described, I'll bet there's lots of room for improvement.

As for the starter motor issue, if you've got a 130-tooth ring gear, you can use the starter from a '72-'74 or '91-'94, as those are the years with that same ring gear. The later starter is preferred, because it uses a gear-reduction drive and it's about 1/2 the weight of the older unit. '75-'90 (or maybe '89, as the '90's are a mixed-up year), used a 131-tooth ring gear. The '75-'85 used a larger still (than the '72-'74) 1.1hp starter, while the '86-'90 used that small gear-reduction starter (similar to the '91-'94, but with a different drive pinion gear). For your purposes, because I'm guessing the car's not a daily driver and isn't started all that much, you might be able to get away with the small '86-'90 starter, and none to minimal gear wear/damage. In fact, I use one of those with my '74 Spider (130-teeth), and it's worked well for the last 7 years or so. First choice would be a '91-'94 starter.

[mac miller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Sacamano I'd be curious about a few things, mostly about getting the engine to run at its optimal level. How about a picture of it, to assist with the ID? For instance, the Bosch-injected engine (L-Jet and Motronic both) have variable intake cam timing. Without using the EFI and its computer, you'll have no cam timing changes, and fairly poor performance. Same goes for the ignition, BTW, and the advance curve on a Bosch 009 is far from correct for any Alfa 2L engine. That's not to say these issues can't be worked around, but as things have been described, I'll bet there's lots of room for improvement. As for the starter motor issue, if you've got a 130-tooth ring gear, you can use the starter from a '72-'74 or '91-'94, as those are the years with that same ring gear. The later starter is preferred, because it uses a gear-reduction drive and it's about 1/2 the weight of the older unit. '75-'90 (or maybe '89, as the '90's are a mixed-up year), used a 131-tooth ring gear. The '75-'85 used a larger still (than the '72-'74) 1.1hp starter, while the '86-'90 used that small gear-reduction starter (similar to the '91-'94, but with a different drive pinion gear). For your purposes, because I'm guessing the car's not a daily driver and isn't started all that much, you might be able to get away with the small '86-'90 starter, and none to minimal gear wear/damage. In fact, I use one of those with my '74 Spider (130-teeth), and it's worked well for the last 7 years or so. First choice would be a '91-'94 starter.