Question regarding head...

[dwuollet]

Hi, Great board you've got here. I'm a new Alfa owner, I've had my car for aabout a month and haven't driven it yet. I've been waiting ro my shop manual and Alfa Owner's Bible. They got here, I read them, and I'm ready to go to work. I just thought I'd get some further advice before digging in. I read in the "Bible" that head gasket problems are very common, I haven't seen a mention of my particular symptom. It has all the usual symptoms, water in the oil, and that funky blown head gasket smell, but mine has coolant in the spark plug wells . The guy I bought the car from seemed to think that the problem was a cracked head, I hope not... If it is, is there a way to repair the head or should I just replace it? Thanks for any advice you can offer.
dave

[jgharrill]

Welcome!
Repaired heads, if done properly, can be perfectly servicable. I have a weld-repaired head on my '88 Quadrifoglio. Having said that, heads for 2 liters (if that is what you have) are relatively easy to find. You might consider looking for a head some where if the source of the leakage is a crack.

[papajam]

Welcome, Dave.

I'd suspect that the coolant in the plug wells may have come from the last head re-torque or came from an exploding coolant hose or something. I'd blot the stuff out and pressurize the cooling system to see if shows up again.
Cracked Alfa heads are quite rare in my experience and if one does crack, it's usually internal like between the exhaust valve seat and the sparkplug. I've not yet seen a head crack externally where coolant fills multiple plug wells.

[Craig]

G'Day Dave,

Before spending a cent, try re-torqueing the head. It may not work for you but it did for me.

[dwuollet]

Thanks everyone for the responses, they have dispelled alot of anxiety. I will definately try cleaning the wells and re-torquing the head, hopefully tomorrow! I'll let you all know what happens and I'm sure I'll have more questions.
Dave

[Alex Csank]

Welcome to the BB and to Alfa ownership!

The Alfa 4 cylinder engine is a beautifully designed and very durable engine. Head gasket problems do happen, but usually the cause of these problems is that the mechanic or previous owner who last performed head service did not follow the correct torqueing procedure, or in some cases, used a poor quality gasket (yes, there are poor-quality aftermarket parts out there).

In other cases, the reason for a head gasket failure is that the engine has been run while overheated. This usually happens because the previous owner did not maintain the cooling system properly and then continued to drive with the temperature in the red.

Occasionally, a head will crack, but usually I have found that happens only when a car has been greatly overheated, or used for racing with very high RPMs.

If you find that retorqueing the head (please follow the instructions in Pat Braden's book) doesn't eliminate the problem, then pull the head, have it checked for 'trueness' and cracks by a competent Alfa-knowledgeable machine shop, and if it isn't warped or cracked, re-install it using a high quality gasket from one of the major parts suppliers. When installing, make sure that you follow all precautions and instructions to the letter.

Keep us in the loop on your repair. There are lots of great Alfa mechanics on this BB (I'm not one of them). They are very helpful and will make your ownership experience a lot more fun.

Cheers and good luck!

[alfa_corse]

My '86 Spider Graduate had a cracked head; leaking coolant into the plug wells. Dry it out; re-torque the head bolts and try running the car up to temp. If the coolant re-appears it's likely a cracked head. I changed the gasket and had the head rebuilt before finding the 'truth' about that head. Then changed the gasket again thinking there was a problem with it. Bottom line was that the alfa-specific shop I took the head to did not pressure test the head like I asked them to do before rebuilding it. They ended up welding the cracks shut with the engine in the car to fix it for me.

The welds never leaked although the 'scarred' head looks kinda ugly. These heads can and do crack; but I agree that it's not a 'common problem'. My car was not overheated; but torque may not have been correctly done at some point; or water may have gotten onto the engine while hot. Not sure what happened to cause the problem; but it definitely was not overheating or a blown gasket. Another possibility is an air bubble that got trapped in the head when changing coolant. If an air pocket gets in there the head wont cool evenly and you may get a hot spot around the plug well. Always loosen the casting plugs to let the air escape when changing the coolant from these cars.

HTH...

[gotglasses]

I've had some luck re-torqueing the heads, but it will not make things perfect. There are rubber o-rings in there which harden and shrink allowing oil to leak into the water. The anti freeze will leak out of the head bolts when you loosen them. The weather turning cold aggravates any leakage you have. Since you already know there are problems here is my technique which may help -

With the engine cold - following the shop manual pattern, or IAP catalog , loosen all the head bolts .
If the head is badly warped you will see it at the joint . Now you will see which bolts leak the fluid most. Now tighten the bolts according to the pattern in three steps, just snug, mid torque and full torque . I've gone as high as 74 # . This is about 5# more than you want to use on a new gasket.

THis may help. However, a head gasket job is really not that bad on an Alfa - but once the head is off you probably will want to do a bit more ---- and more .

[John M]

My guess is unfortunately a cracked boss around one of the head studs. I would imagine that it could be welded up. I have seen this on one of our local guy's car. Hopefully Papa is correct!

Welcome to the board and best of luck. The good news is that if its cracked a good used head is pretty inexpensive.

Best Regards,
John M

[Roadtrip]

I agree with Papajam. I think it'd be pretty darn unusual to have a fractured head. Since you're taking it off anyway, I'd recommend that you take it down to the machine shop and have them check it for cracks as well as freshen up the valves and valve seals and check for trueness.

Also, on reinstall, check what kind of head gasket you're putting back on and make sure it's got sealant around all the holes. Lots of people have been having problems with Reinz gaskets leaking due to an indemic defect in their recently manufactured gaskets. Take your time, do it right, and you'll won't have to worry about headgaskets for a very long time.

[papajam]

Going by the described symptom, "coolant in the spark plug wells", I'm assuming that there's coolant in all four wells. Given that an external crack or a cracked stud boss (good one John!), could fill one, possibly two plug wells, my conclusion is more toward a boilover. Which could also explain water in the oil; bad head gasket, warped head, etc.
But assumption is the mother of all foulups!

Hoping it's an easy one, dwuollet.

[Alex Csank]

Here's hoping that it isn't a badly-warped or cracked head!

Cheers,

[dwuollet]

Just a quick update on the project. I re-torqued the head, it was 10 to 15 pounds shy on all the bolts, and changed the oil. Changing the oil was an adventure in itself. Two trips to the auto parts store-one for a 1-1/16 socket and one for the right size filter wrench. That filter is BIG! And, is there another way to get the filter out? one that doesn't include removing the air box?

So, having done those things and taking two tires to be fixed (slow leaks). I put it to the test. Drove about 3 miles down to the store, got some gas, and started back back, a strange thumping noise started coming from the front left side. I pulled over immediately thinking okay, suspension problems. I was about a half mile from home so I started walking, then it dawned on me, I didn't tighten the lug nuts once I lowered the car! Duh! Got a wrench, went back, tightened the lugs, it worked, no more thumping!

Back to the head, I examined it at the store/gas station, no signs of cracks or any new coolant in the plug wells, same at home when I finally got back. Also, when I drained the oil it was just black, no sign of emulsification, Huh. Soo.. It looks like the re-torquing worked! (crossed fingers)

Now, the next item. The throttle pedal sticks, it does stick up, not down. I have to push it pretty hard to make it work, and it doesn't do it all the time, When I drove it yesterday it wasn't doing it at all when I started and started to do it when I was heading home. I've fiddled around with the linkage and it seems to be sticking at the point where it comes through the fire wall. Right where it comes through there and makes the 90 deg. turn to go across, there are two brackets, one goes up and one goes down, the one that goes down has a spring attached to it, should the other one have something attached to it as well?
Again, I'm hoping someone on here will have some sage advice.
Dave

[Roadtrip]

Keep a very close eye on the oil. You don't want to run the engine with coolant in the oil. Glycol displaces oil on the bearing surfaces causing rapid wear. I recommend another oil and filter change soon after the initial "flush" oil change. It's cheap insurance.

You coolant in the spark plug wells was almost certainly coming out a headbolt hole. Sometimes the washers get scarred up and won't seal well initially. Low torque value make is worse. Also, putting the engine lift bar and washers in the wrong order can cause a leak. Keep in mind that there is a very specific procedure for tightening the head bolts . . . i.e. specific sequence and the fact that the washers and nuts should be oiled.

On the throttle linkage, you'll just have to look for mechanical interference while someone move the throttle for you. I didn't see where you specified what model your Spider is. I'd recommend that you include that in your "post signature." If it's a SPICA engine, then you might have the inclusion of a hand throttle connection that could be intermittently binding (see picture).

If nothing is obvious, I'd try disconnecting the throttle cable from the relay crank (check to be sure the carb or injection pump linkage isn't causing the binding) or just release the two relay crank return springs from their post, then just work your way back to the pedal. On a SPICA car, especially, there is a very specific procedure for making the 3 possible adjustments to the throttle linkage system and stops. It's fairly common to find cars with the throttle stops set wrong, causing the actual throttle butterflies to not open fully . . . with subsequent loss in full engine response.

[smestas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwuollet I was about a half mile from home so I started walking, then it dawned on me, I didn't tighten the lug nuts once I lowered the car! Duh! Got a wrench, went back, tightened the lugs, it worked, no more thumping!