Spider Starter Replacement

[zkalsent]

So, I've diagnosed that the starter in my Bosch FI 86 spider is shot. I believe it is the original. (Voltage tests, etc). I've ordered a replacement from IAP, and I get a core refund if returned w/ in 60 days.

Here's my question - How the heck to I get to the starter? From above there is the guts of the engine (coolant, air, throttle, etc) and from below there is the suspension and linkage for the air intake - all impedeing easy access to said starter.

And then, once I would get to the part in question (assuming access from below), it appears that there is a third bolt located precariously (impossibly) above the peice, how do I get to this? Do I need a hinged socket? It still looks very difficult.

(Aah, to own a less romantic car would sometimes be easier, albeit not as fun - starters on less exotic cars are right at the bottom of the engine, atleast in my experience)

Please somebody tell me there is an easier way, or just tell me to suck it up and enjoy the experience (ugh). Can't wait to get this girl fired up again! Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks - Z

[MrT]

AlfaBBased on my (limited) personal experience with both Spica and Bosch Spiders, I'd say look at your right hand motor mount. If it is questionable, then bite the bullet, pull the Bosch intake plenum, and replace the mount and starter that way. The Spica starters are pretty trivial to do once the air box on the right hand side of the engine is clear, and I suspect (but only guess, so far) that the starter assembly is identical between the two styles. Then replace the plenum and maybe replace the rubber hoses connecting the intake manifold to the plenum ($2-3 each, as I recall). You might want to look at the injector hoses (the 2"-3" connectors between injector and fuel rail) for integrity, too. I replaced all of these on our '86 Spider, and all contributed to my peace of mind. Well, I didn't need to do the starter on this one and I wish I'd had the right motor mount when I had the plenum out. The left motor mount is installed and the right one is in hand and I'm planning to pull the plenum again soon to install the mount and replace the fuel return hose for more peace of mind.

Michael

[zkalsent]

You've confirmed my fears. Going from the top would be easier, I think. And yes, I do need to replace my right motor mount, too, as the intake plenum is sagging. I can't believe I just noticed that! Unfortunately my professional ALFA mechanic has retired here in Charlotte, and my abilities are limited (mostly due to my relatively young collection of garage tools - ie, I don't think I have the means to support the engine while replacing a motor mount - is there a trick here?). So.... this might be a time for me to pick up the phone and dial superman. I'll chip away at it patiently and see what happens, thanks for the suggestions - any further advice is always welcome!

Cheers fellow alfisti. - Z

[Ianc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zkalsent ie, I don't think I have the means to support the engine while replacing a motor mount - is there a trick here?). Cheers fellow alfisti. - Z

[84GTV6]

Yup, take the plenum off. Mark all wires and where they go, there's a bracket with 2 13mm bolts attaching the underside of the plenum to a bracket that are easy to remove but a pain to re-install!

Why replace the starter?

Once it's out take it to any local starter/alternator repair and have it rebuilt. Lots cheaper and just as good as a "new" one.

Loosen the motor mount, put a floor jack under the oil pan with a piece of wood (2x4) and lift it a bit, slide the old mount out, slide new one in, and yer done! Nothing special to it, no special tools, and you'll learn alot about you car!!

[MrT]

I'll admit to using a large socket (medium, really) to fit between the pan guard slats and support the motor that way. It worked for me, anyway. I generally push on the beefier-looking portions of the pan, and sometimes on the oil drain plug (presuming rather boldly that the pan is reinforced around the threaded area for that plug). To take the plenum area apart is not a really terrible thing. The worst item for me was re-attaching the throttle linkage. You may well need a 10 mm socket/ratchet assembly to get some things loose, but they're not really bad. (said he, as the unpleasant portions of his memories of the event faded into the fog-shrouded past)

Michael

[John M]

It looks like this is well covered. I would suggest changing out both motor mounts. And I would specify the round ones. They seem to last a little better from my experience and from what I have read from other's accounts. As Mark noted, the biggest challenge to this entire procedure will be removing and replacing the intake plenum support rod....specifically those two bolts that attach the plenum to the rod. Those are a real PITA to get started back in when reinstalling.

Make sure you tighten down all the runners well during reinstall. Once the plenum is out of the way, the starter is relatively easy to get to for removal from the top.

On the motor mounts, as suggested, you can jack on the front pan to raise the motor enough to get the mounts out and replace. Just remember to remove all the bolts on the engine and cross member securing the mounts before jacking. When I knocked my pans off last winter, I actually jacked at the junction of the tranny bell housing and the motor. It worked well.

So get busy so you can get cruising!

Best Regards,
John M

[conedriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zkalsent So, I've diagnosed that the starter in my Bosch FI 86 spider is shot. I believe it is the original. (Voltage tests, etc). I've ordered a replacement from IAP, and I get a core refund if returned w/ in 60 days. Here's my question - How the heck to I get to the starter? From above there is the guts of the engine (coolant, air, throttle, etc) and from below there is the suspension and linkage for the air intake - all impedeing easy access to said starter. And then, once I would get to the part in question (assuming access from below), it appears that there is a third bolt located precariously (impossibly) above the peice, how do I get to this? Do I need a hinged socket? It still looks very difficult. (Aah, to own a less romantic car would sometimes be easier, albeit not as fun - starters on less exotic cars are right at the bottom of the engine, atleast in my experience) Please somebody tell me there is an easier way, or just tell me to suck it up and enjoy the experience (ugh). Can't wait to get this girl fired up again! Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks - Z

[84GTV6]

I just picked up my "new" rebuilt starter from the local guy here in town. Looks brand new!

$78.00

Lots cheaper then any catalog and no shipping!
They're kinda heavy!

[zkalsent]

Thanks everyone for the tips - will proceed w/ caution and take my time. This helps a bunch! Cheers - Z

[Ianc]

I know that'll you do this, but just in case DISCONNECT THE BATTERY

[zkalsent]

Zzzzzztttt. Shockingly enough I've already done so.