Grinding

[rmatteo]

Just wanted to get some opinions on gear oil choices for my particular situation. When the car is cold, I don't get any grinding when shifting into 1st or reverse so long as I go into fourth first. But once the car has been driven for a long while, there is no getting it into 1st or reverse without grinding it in. Since the car is new to me, I don't know whats in the gearbox, but I'm thinking that based on the above information, I should go with something a bit thicker than standard. Any suggestions or comments? Thanks guys!

[Gubi]

Wait - so you're sitting at a dead stop in neutral. When the transmission is warm you push in the clutch, shift into fourth, then shift into first and you can still get a grind? I don't think that should be possible unless your clutch isn't fully releasing.

While standing still, if you hold down the clutch for like ten seconds (to let the gears spin down) and shift into first, does it still grind?

[rmatteo]

Thats correct. When hot, sitting in netural, shift to fourth then first still grinds. The way I've found to get to first with no grinding is to downshift into it when I'm still moving slowly. But that doesn't really work in neutral. I'll see about holding the clutch down for a good 10 seconds.

[MKITGO2]

Mine is in at Mister Transmission for exactly this problem. They have told me it is not clutch related, there is something within the transmission that is broken.

I am still waiting for the full estimate on the repair.


MK

[81alfa]

I just changed my gear oil today and what a huge dif. it makes in my shifts. Since I have owned the car in early 92 I think its been changed once. By the look of it, I may have been BS'd by one shop that worked on it way back. Metal on Magnet etc. I took a small magnet for picking up nuts and such and worked it around some. It was like panning for gold. Lots of specs came out but it's clean now. Doesn't suprise me because reverse has jumped out since I have had it and I just live with it. Most of us do. As for your shifting problem. Many posting on this suggest multiple rems based around moving to other gears between your shift to your desired gear. I was told long ago that a quick double clutch is the best and when you get it down - Your friends are really impressed. Just a quick pop of the clutch between gears and you should be good.
Since you are new to the car I have to ask - Does the clutch engage hard at some point or does it slide in? Also you may want to see if the engine dies out when you go into 3rd or 4th at a slow speed or does it spin when you give it gas. Looking for some slip. clutch should catch hard and based on the books you should not be riding the clutch on hills etc. Best way to wear out an Alfa clutch. They work best when you get of em quick and determined.
Also- Check your slave cyl. - Could be low on fluid or just on its way to going bad and not pushing the clutch out far enough.
Still confused?? I would call Fast Auto in Vineland. Peter De'Mico. (Spelling) By far the best Alfa Mech. in this area. Parts -good if you need same day. As for oil used.
Book recs. 80-90w - Old posts recommend several brands but most all us rec. wt.
Shoot me an email if you want to borrow my alfa bible. I will get it to you.

[Gubi]

MK: grinding when shifting into first or reverse is "normal" for your typical older Spider tranny. Reverse isn't synchronized and usually the first gear synchro is shot. The solution, as previously mentioned, is just to touch another gear before shifting into first or reverse. This stops the front-of-the-transmission gears spinning and the everything can mesh without a grind. Alternatively, you can just hold down the clutch for a few seconds until the everything spins down from friction.

If that's the only problem you're having, don't let Mister Transmission (why does that name not inspire confidence?) try to charge you an arm and a leg to fix it, 'cause it probably ain't broke. At least, not any more broke than anyone else's, that is.

Now, Matteo's problem is that he's getting grinding into first at a dead stop *even if* he touches fourth. That's a little strange. I'm no transmission expert, but the only thing I can think of is that the clutch may not be fully releasing (thus causing the layshaft to spin a bit with the stick in neutral even with the clutch fully depressed).

Just to eliminate the obvious, Matteo, you're not letting the clutch out after you touch fourth, right? It's: clutch in, stick to fourth, stick to first, right?

[papajam]

Gears in the trans can't grind if they're not turning. If they grind going into first after stopping them from turning by going into another gear first, then the trans is not being disconnected (fully) from the engine. This is what a clutch does; disconnects the drivetrain from the engine. Sounds like the clutch is not fully releasing.
How far off the floor is the clutch pedal when the clutch is fully engaged?

[DaveC]

I get the same problem at a stop light. If I sit at the light with the car in neutral then depress the clutch to slip into first, I will grind the gear. I have to touch second before shifting into first. If you are in neutral and the clutch is not depressed, the input shaft is spinning. When you depress the clutch to shift into first, the inertia of the spinning input shaft will grind into the lower gear. Shifting into a higher gear slows or stops the shaft from spining. Also remember that on a hot running car, the oil in the tranny is less viscous than a cold running car making it more likely to grind.

I'm assuming that your in neutral and the clutch out.

Dave

[alfa63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 81alfa Also- Check your slave cyl. - Could be low on fluid or just on its way to going bad and not pushing the clutch out far enough.

[rmatteo]

I initially thought it was a clutch issue at first, but the fact that its fine when cold made me think it wasn't. Either way, I need to change out all of the fluids. I'll look over the slave cylinder as well. If all else fails I'll check out Fast Auto as I probably need to make friends with them anyway. He's only like 20 minutes away from me, though I'm sure he can't hold a candle to Mr. Transmission.

[papajam]

Cold trans fluid is more viscous than hot fluid so it offers a certain amount of friction to help slow down the gears.

[Toptick]

This really sounds like the clutch isn't releasing all the way. It could be as easy as air in the clutch circuit. If the slave/master/hose is starting to go south, it might show up this way. Try replacing the fluid in the hydraulic clutch. If it has absorbed a lot of water over the years, it might help explain why the problem is more apparant when hot. Could be an answer, or at least part of one.

[MrT]

Thought I should make a suggestion. When my '86 Spider had first arrived in the family, its clutch flex hose was internally impaired. The increased flow restriction had led to the clutch pivot shaft/arm being bent significantly, reducing the clutch travel. This particular setup could be pumped up (!) by pushing the pedal repetitively, a la brakes. (But that was because the thing was broken; it shouldn't have pumped up at all with free-flow fluid return.) If your clutch has this problem with low travel (is the clutch pedal at the same position as the brake pedal at rest, or is it noticeably "below" the brake pedal?) then you will have this grinding problem even if everything else is in great working order.

Michael

[rmatteo]

Thanks for all the great advice guys. I'm setting Sunday aside to get to the bottom of the problem. I'll post my findings.

[rmatteo]

Just a quick follow up. The problem was solved by adjusting the length of the striking rod on the clutch master cylinder. Shifting into first is now like butter hot or cold. Reverse is not exactly butter, but still much smoother.