Duetto/Round-Tail 'floating bow' - Page 2

**Anfanuts** · #17 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008, 02:27 PM

Sorry for the hijack here Biba. All you wanted to know about was floating bows.

Yea, I've known for awhile that my rail had a slight dogleg. I just assumed that's how it "was". Sorta born that way. Now I know why it sags a bit. My top opens easily with one hand sitting. There is a fine rust powder in the joints (visible in the photos) from some 38 years of sitting around in damp garages. I now use silicone lube in the joints so as not to get a dirty hard grease sludge.

I don't use the top all that much. I'm not keen on drilling and sleeving. Those rails appear to be pot metal or perhaps aluminum (that white corrosion product is a giveaway) and are probably not overly strong to begin with and drilling and reducing the cross section does not seem right. Seems like a good application for a thin brass/bronze sleeve or shim material. That should last a lot longer than the nylon sleeves and give some inherent lubrication. Maybe the specialty parts bins at Ace will come to the rescue. Will keep you posted. Bruce

If anyone knows where to get the nylon sleeves, I'd sure do that in a heartbeat rather than jury-rigging or drilling.

**ossodiseppia** · #18 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anfanuts

If anyone knows where to get the nylon sleeves, I'd sure do that in a heartbeat rather than jury-rigging or drilling.

Biba69 · #19 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008, 05:09 PM

Osso, as usual an incredible job on the top. Below is how I handled the oversized holes. Most on this top frame were elongated so I measured the holes in the elongated dimension, then measured several of the screws and came up with a consensus as to what will work for all of the holes. I called my local bearing (etc.) place and gave them the OD, ID, and length of the bushings I needed. The very patient guy could match the OD and ID perfectly, so we fiddled around with the lengths so I could hacksaw (yes, very sophisticated) them into the correct lengths. I then got a drill bit to exact OD size and drilled each hole to fit. The bushing are oil impregnated, but I also added a good dollop of grease in each bushing before inserting the screw.

The lower photos are of my (also) sophisticated spray booth. The first photo shows the frame after being epoxy primered. Using a very aggressive rotary brush everything was brought down to bare metal before spraying.

Biba

**ossodiseppia** · #20 (**permalink**) 03-27-2008, 05:52 PM

Thanks for the pictures. Very nice work, indeed. I am told that a properly working top can be opened from the driver's seat.

I hope you will share more of your work with us in the future.

Wille R. · #21 (**permalink**) 03-28-2008, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ossodiseppia

Thanks for the pictures. Very nice work, indeed. I am told that a properly working top can be opened from the driver's seat.

Biba69 · #22 (**permalink**) 03-28-2008, 11:10 AM

In my opinion you can open the top from the drivers seat - especially if the frame is in good working order - but if you don't want holes in the top on the corners of the middle bow, you have to get out (in the snow in Wille's case) and 'hand fold' it as it is pulled back.

Osso, just curious, but if you had your top frame powder coated again after you inserted the (I assume) nylon bushings - did they hold up in the heat? There is no doubt that powder coating makes for a very durable finish, but when both primering and painting the frame I did a section at a time, then moved the bows partly so I could spray areas that didn't get coated and partly to make sure the primer/paint wasn't interfering with the top's movement.

Osso, I appreciate your compliment - especially from someone who has restored one of these cars to perfection. I can point you to the book "Original Alfa Romeo Spider" by Chris Rees. My first '69 Spider restoration is pictured on the Contents page, page 6 and pages 41 through 47. My clients had bought this car new. Although I suspect you're more interested in detail photos like the above ones.

Biba
Restoration of 50's to 70's Alfa Spiders

(How does one go about including a link to their website - for instance - since the 'atachments' won't accept html's?)

**ossodiseppia** · #23 (**permalink**) 03-28-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biba69

In my opinion you can open the top from the drivers seat - especially if the frame is in good working order - but if you don't want holes in the top on the corners of the middle bow, you have to get out (in the snow in Wille's case) and 'hand fold' it as it is pulled back.

Biba69 · #24 (**permalink**) 05-04-2008, 11:38 AM

Bruce/Anfanuts: Have you had your Duetto Motors top installed yet? If so I'd love to see photos of it. If that's inconvenient how would you rate the fit and finish of the top itself? Of course the fit has a lot to do with the installer and if the windows are properly aligned to the top.

I'm going to order one from them (also with zippered window) soon and would like feedback in case the installer ran into any problems. I would imagine it was their first Round-Tail top install so that is also a factor.

Biba

**Anfanuts** · #25 (**permalink**) 05-04-2008, 12:49 PM

Biba - My top/frame is off right now being refurbished. Al local Austin Alfa guru is handling it and he has restored several top frames and installed tops on 69's. We'll inspect the joints together to determine what needs doing there. The refurbish should be done in 2 weeks and the top will go on thereafter. Will advise. Have you found boattail tops to have side cables? Mine did not but I'll fit them on the new top.

See link photo #5 for latest interior shot. Still have not put the brackets on the shoulder belts. They work well hand have stopped me flying forward on hard braking. All that's left in the interior is the new rear drape with the new top.

Osso - like Biba said, the top CAN BE done sitting with one hand but you have to fold the quarter panels to avoid damage. Perhaps all those elastic straps Wilie is discussing/showing brings that floating bow back, but you still need to fold the quarters in. Bruce

fgc · #26 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wille R.

Here we go. The photos show the strap, how they came in 1967. Only replaced by now, as the rubber wears out. The white paper is just to make it easier to see the strap, the next pic shows the strap making a loop over the bow.

The straps ensure that the moving bow does not interfear with the cloth. 100 percent original, yeah man! I'm that way. Less talk, more action.

Wille R. · #27 (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgc

Hey Wille,

I noticed in your picture and in others as well that the end of the bow is just bare metal. I had the same in my but I always thought that something was missing. Am I right? Should there be some kind of rubber end cap or is it just bare metal to meet the round rubber pad that osso showed in his thread?

My frame was fairly worn as well so I redid all the bushing as they were wornout. I did not want to wear the alu frame holes anymore so I chosed a softer material - Nylon - as bushing material and proceeded to turn a set on my lathe. I can lift the thing with fingers sitting down from the drivers seat. The two coil spring really helped to off-set the weight if the frame is straight and has good bushings. The nylon bushings seems to hold up pretty well as that mod was done over 2 years back and my car is a daily drive and i put the hood up and down several times a day.

fgc

Biba69 · #28 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 04:38 PM

And another thing, what about the army belt?

Okay, I'm a bit slow coming up with this photo which I took a decade ago (FYI: This is the original top for the '69 Spider I restored which is the US 1750 Spider in the book 'Original Alfa Romeo Spider').

You've always wondered what that bracket with a slit in it which is installed in the middle of the rubber handle on the top's header was for? You're seeing what it looks like. I will admit it 'might not' be the original belt, but bet it is. My clients bought the car new, made virtually no changes to it, and it had sat for over eighteen years when I got it. So we're talking 28 years ago.

There was absolutely no sign there had ever been a glued in piece of fabric to wrap around the floating bow. The adjustable belt pulled it into place (pretty much).

No, not a makeshift fix. ALL (at least 69's) came with the metal bracket and belt. Alfa/Pinninfarina didn't install brackets that weren't used. Poke around with a sharp pointer (needle). Find the center and move 1 1/8" to each side (I just measured the belt bracket from current client's top) and bet if you poke long enough the pointer will go through the header. That is where the bracket should be.

As I vaguely recall I cut a notch out of the canvas top's fabric wrap so I could wrap the bow but also pull it up with the belt. Not positive about that. I might not have wrapped it at all.

Comments?

Biba

**Anfanuts** · #29 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biba69

And another thing, what about the army belt?

You've always wondered what that bracket with a slit in it which is installed in the middle of the rubber handle on the top's header was for? You're seeing what it looks like. I will admit it 'might not' be the original belt, but bet it is. My clients bought the car new, made virtually no changes to it, and it had sat for over eighteen years when I got it. So we're talki