79 alfa veloce shift problem PLEASE help

lgaddy007 · #1 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 11:17 AM

i just bought a 79 alfa romeo veloce. it had a new clutch master cylinder installed. but when i drive it i have hardly any pedal. and it grinds going into most gears. but sometimes it will go in fine. but it seems like i am having to force and grind it. i am newly into alfas, so i know absolutely nothing
does this sound like a bleeding solution? a more serious problem? possibly a transmission problem? i live in Orlando florida, and am looking for someone who is familiar with these. but would like to familiarize myself if possible. so please give me your thoughts. i can also be emailed at l
gaddy007@earthlink.net or 407 844-1672

thanks larry

Alfacliff · #2 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 11:22 AM

sounds like they didnt get done bleeding the air out of the line to the clutch slave.
cliff

**ghnl** · #3 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 12:22 PM

Hopefully it is just a matter of proper bleeding. It can be difficult to get the clutch system fully purged of air so either be patient as you re-do the job or find a mechanic that is willing & able to take the time to do it right. Note that the slave cylinder can rotate in its mount - it must be positioned (during bleeding) so that the bleed screw is upper-most "12 o'clock".

If it is NOT a bleeding problem then it could be a failed slave cylinder (was it replaced or rebuilt along with the master cylinder?). There is an adjustment of the master cylinder's actuating rod. It is not supposed to be 'adjusted' per se but set to a specified length on assembly. See the link in the next paragraph.

Or it could be a failing clutch pedal pivot. Where does the clutch pedal sit (at rest) compared to the brake pedal? It should be about even - certainly not lower than the brake pedal. Check this thread and the links there-in for more info.

I suppose it could be a transmission problem but that is unlikely. The Alfa transmission is fairly stout. The 1-2 synchro can be iffy but it is rare for the synchros in the higher gears to give much of a problem.

lgaddy007 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 03:28 PM

thanks, Cliff and Eric
i will try that that was very detailed and i appreciate it.

Larry

**ghnl** · #5 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 04:32 PM

You are quite welcome. And welcome to the BB, BTW.

Please keep us updated about the problem and what you find. That helps add to the knowledge base.

So, how does the clutch pedal sit compared to the brake pedal? That is an important (and easy to check) piece of information.

**vf31rhill** · #6 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 04:55 PM

Eric's advice can't be improved upon but there is now more trick you can try. The air trapped in the hydraulic clutch system will always rise to the top of the line coming out of the clutch M/C. Since there is not much "loop" in that line which is above the cylinder, you can let the system rest overnight and all the trapped air should rise to the loop. Next morning get into the car and slowly depress the clutch pedal. Hold it down for a longer period of time than you really want to wait. Take the newspaper and read for a few minutes while you are holding the pedal down. When you depress the pedal, the trapped air will advance down the line, but while you hold the pedal down it will slowely rise back to the top of the loop again. If you give it some time to do this, then let the pedal go instantly, it will draw the trapped air into the clutch M/C reservior. You have just replaced trapped air with solid fluid and improved the operation of the hydraulic clutch system. You may have to do this several times but if you give it some time to recover between attempts you can "suck" the trapped air back into the reservoir. Slow, but beats crawling under the car and bleeding the slave cylinder in a single attempt. if you get frantic when trying to bleed the system and pump it evcessively, you will just froth the fluid and only letting it sit overnight will un-froth the fluid and let the trapped air accumulate in the highest point in the system.
Robert

**ghnl** · #7 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 05:33 PM

OK, maybe we can improve on Robert's 'trick' a bit...

Try propping down the clutch pedal over night. A length of broom stick against the seat might work. We often do this with motorcycle hydraulic clutches - by tying the clutch lever to the handlebar and letting it sit over night - to let any trapped air make its way up to the master cylinder. And maybe even rap on the flex hose & steel line to encourage any bubbles to move.

But I still want to know if the pedal has dropped - a sign of a failed clutch pedal pivot shaft.

lgaddy007 · #8 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghnl

OK, maybe we can improve on Robert's 'trick' a bit...

Try propping down the clutch pedal over night. A length of broom stick against the seat might work. We often do this with motorcycle hydraulic clutches - by tying the clutch lever to the handlebar and letting it sit over night - to let any trapped air make its way up to the master cylinder. And maybe even rap on the flex hose & steel line to encourage any bubbles to move.

But I still want to know if the pedal has dropped - a sign of a failed clutch pedal pivot shaft.

lgaddy007 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vf31rhill

Eric's advice can't be improved upon but there is now more trick you can try. The air trapped in the hydraulic clutch system will always rise to the top of the line coming out of the clutch M/C. Since there is not much "loop" in that line which is above the cylinder, you can let the system rest overnight and all the trapped air should rise to the loop. Next morning get into the car and slowly depress the clutch pedal. Hold it down for a longer period of time than you really want to wait. Take the newspaper and read for a few minutes while you are holding the pedal down. When you depress the pedal, the trapped air will advance down the line, but while you hold the pedal down it will slowely rise back to the top of the loop again. If you give it some time to do this, then let the pedal go instantly, it will draw the trapped air into the clutch M/C reservior. You have just replaced trapped air with solid fluid and improved the operation of the hydraulic clutch system. You may have to do this several times but if you give it some time to recover between attempts you can "suck" the trapped air back into the reservoir. Slow, but beats crawling under the car and bleeding the slave cylinder in a single attempt. if you get frantic when trying to bleed the system and pump it evcessively, you will just froth the fluid and only letting it sit overnight will un-froth the fluid and let the trapped air accumulate in the highest point in the system.
Robert

**ghnl** · #10 (**permalink**) 03-07-2008, 08:58 PM

I still want to know if the clutch pedal is in the proper position or not...

And where in cyberspace are you?

lgaddy007 · #11 (**permalink**) 03-08-2008, 09:56 AM

the pedal seems to be at the same height as the brake ...

i am in Sunny Orlando florida, lol

**ghnl** · #12 (**permalink**) 03-08-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lgaddy007

the pedal seems to be at the same height as the brake ...

lgaddy007 · #13 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 09:27 AM

actually the clutch pedal is apoximately one half inch higher than the brake pedal? does that matter? and pics gladly, just as soon as i figure out how to load them, lol
can i do it from photobucket? or just straight jpeg. i am new to this site
thanx

lgaddy007 · #14 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 10:03 AM

lgaddy007 · #15 (**permalink**) 03-10-2008, 10:03 AM

i think i got the pics