'84 or '79, which one?

[JLGarbanzo]

Alright, so I began looking at spiders about a week before the site went down. I had received some good advice from Roadtrip about what to look for when acquiring a spider. I have been looking around to no avail. However, just today I came across something that might be worth my while. About 5 minutes from my house an older woman is selling 2 spiders, a '79 and an '84. They are both in very rough condition and will need much work before they are even road ready. However, she took a liking to me and is willing to drop her $2000 price point down to 500 dollars for either one of them.

There is no structural rust on both except in the rocker panels. Both seem to run, they are hard starting and run rough, but they do start. Once i get a better idea of what im looking for, ill go back with a compression tester and test both engines. Assuming that both are in equal mechanical condition, the body of the '84 is in slightly better condition, however there is basically no interior. Likewise, the interior on the ‘79 is all there and in decent shape, but it needs some serious cosmetic rust repair.

My questions are: which of these two would you suggest? Is the SPICA a little to finicky for a first time Alfa buyer? Does either one have the potential to be worth more in the end? Knowing that the '79 needs more new sheet metal while the '84 needs a new interior, will either one be easier and cheaper to bring back to an acceptable condition?

Oh, and if you think I should totally stay clear of these things, let me know that too. I feel that with 500 buck I really can’t go wrong though.

[John M]

For $500 bucks each....I would buy them both. I would concentrate on the one that has the best body. Part the other for your restoration and to sell to recoup your investment. A 79 or an 84 have no special value. Actually the interior of the 79...if memory serves me....is pretty much like that of an 84. 79 was a year of change for the series 2 spider. While the outside stayed the same, the seats and door panels changed to what I believe is identical to the 84. Console sides and dash are the same...except the console top is slightly different in switch locations. But be advised....restoring a car...any car is a money loosing proposition. It will definitely cost more to bring either of these cars back in the long run than just buying a car that is already in excellent shape. In any case....$500 for an Alfa...I would have to buy them both!

Best Regards,
John M

[Gubi]

For $500 you can't go wrong if you're just going to drive it as is (i.e., a beater) or use one as a parts donor. If you're looking to fix one up, though, I suspect it will quickly get more expensive than just having bought a good condition Spider in the first place. S3 Spiders are not particularly expensive, even in reasonably good shape.

Generally, it's almost always cheaper to spend the extra money up front and get a nice car rather than buying a poor car and putting money into it. Alfa parts and service are not particularly cheap. And if these two have rust and need panels/paint, that's a pretty serious chunk of change right there if you want to do it right. If you're looking for a driver, I'd save my $500 and put it towards a better car.

Good luck with the decision.

[Davy13]

Mechanically, I would think that the '84 would be more "manageable." A bit more "modern." I had always tried to avoid the late 70's... Someone with more '70's experience would certainly be able to help, but I had always been under the impression that unless it is a '74, go with the one from the '80's.

*disclaimer: No intended offence to anyone who owns a car of the late '70's. They are indeed every bit as charming and lovely, and are indeed a true Alfa... But you gotta admit, they can be a bit difficult...

[JLGarbanzo]

I didn’t realize that interior parts could be interchanged between the two, that’s great to know. Ill call the woman tomorrow to find out, but my understanding from the deal was that she was happy to see someone my age (I’m 19 by the way) so interested in the car she was willing to basically give one away. She’s an older lady who doesn’t really know what she has. She bought it because she liked the way it looked. She made it sound as though I could buy one for that price because however, she was going to try to get all she could for the other. I will certainly call and ask though.

I was never really looking to make money on the vehicle, my question was really trying to figure out which one would be easier for me to work on and, which might be potentially cheaper to get back on the road. On that note, should I stay away from the SPICA? Is the EFI of the ’84 going to cause me less headaches?

[JLGarbanzo]

Thanks Davy, that is the advice I am looking for. I was always weary of the SPICA, I've heard some horror stories about them. But then, some people on the forum swear by them. I will take a closer look at the '84 when I go back to look at them.

[Davy13]

When running well the Spica can be great, but getting to that form could be costly and difficult. You may need items that are costly, etc. The Bosch EFI would be easier and simpler...

As a side note, DUDE! YOU'RE 19! That is fantastic! A decent running Alfa spider for a 19 year-old! The world is your oyster, my friend! That car will turn more heads than you can imagine... Be prepared for women liking you only because of your car, though...

[Roadtrip]

JL - If rusty, I wouldn't consider either of them a restoration candidate. I would consider them parts cars. Most likely the floors beneath the carpet are completely rusted too and maybe the inner rocker panels which will Class-A the frames. Unless they run good enough to check the transmission and rear axles, you don't know what you're getting there, either. As far as the SPICA goes, if you're already a pretty good mechanic then the SPICA doesn't present too much of a problem if you're willing to do some book study. However, before I bought ANY Spica car, I'd at least remove the barometric compensator and smell for old gas in the logic section of the injection pump. The smell of gas in there mandates a complete rebuild of the injection pump which is about $750. A bad injection pump means at least $800 comes off what I'm willing to pay.

Being that this is you're first foray into Alfa ownership, I would encourage you to buy a car with the nicest body and paint you can find. Mechanical work and parts are cheap compared to bodywork and paint. I think restorations of rustbuckets should be left to cars that are rare and have better residual value. A 79 and an 84 are nothing special. Tons of good examples out there. Don't be lured by a cheap price.

Like I said, those cars might be worth something for parts, but that's about it.

[Davy13]

Whatever you decide, don't make the mistake I made when I was 19, of going down the FIAT road... Fun cars, but what a bunch of crap... Get the real thing; find an ALfa...

[JLGarbanzo]

Roadtrip, you sound like my father, haha. I am trying to stay logical about the whole thing, but come on, I’m 19 and impulsive. I now know to stay away from the ’74, I was weary of the SPICA before and knowing that the car has sat for so long, I’m sure old gas has clogged that pump up pretty good. As with the ’84 you think that its not worth it?

Inner rocker: 180 x2 = 360
Front fender: 400 x2 = 800
Rear fender: 70+90= 160 x2 = 320

Total: approx 1480

I understand that this is still without trim, floorboards, paint, etc. But I have someone who can paint it cheap, so that is not a concern of mine. I am also thinking, these cars as you said are worth between 3500 and 5000 when brought back to good condition. I am at 2000 right now with those parts, which gives me another 1500 to go before I’m exceeding the value of the car.

Also, I really looking to get this car back on the road and slowly (over many years) bring it back to pristine condition. So, do you think its beyond its value for me to get in running and slowly invest in new parts?

Please, slap me and tell me I’m being illogical here, if I truly am.

[John M]

Just want to emphasize something I said:

But be advised....restoring a car...any car is a money loosing proposition. It will definitely cost more to bring either of these cars back in the long run than just buying a car that is already in excellent shape.

Here is a series 4 Spider Veloce that's going for $6000
Alfa on Autotrader in Houston, TX

Here is another example of a series 4 that's going for $6800
Alfa series 4 AutoTrader

A 93 series 4 with less than 30000 miles in Pennsylvania for $7500
Alfa on cars.com

And of course Alfas on ebay
Ebay Alfas

I am just guessing but being 19 you probably have very limited mechanical repair experience so I would agree with the rest and say save a Spica Spider for later. IMHO, the series 4 is what you need to be considering. Probably the most easy to maintain and the most reliable. If you like the looks of the series 3 spiders.....like the 84 you looked at.....they are pretty good too, just harder to diagnose when something goes wrong.

If you decide to look seriously at the 79 and 84....I suggest that you snap some pictures and post them up to the board. People on here will be able to make a pretty good judgement rather quickly as to what you would be getting into. In any case, welcome aboard and to the Alfa affliction. ALFA....Always Looking For Another.

Best Regards,
John M

[JLGarbanzo]

I totally understand im getting into something thats going to cost me some money. Im not looking to get my money out of it, im looking to have a little fun, get it running, and fix it when it breaks.

[John M]

Add to your list labor to put those panels in.....Cha ching....unless your paint friend can do that too. Anywhere from $1500 to $2000 in labor to repair those panels you have listed. And that goes if you are not working on the inner rocker....just the outer skins.

Interior is not that bad...if you have all the parts there. It will get expensive if you have to buy the seats from someone else and then have them reupholstered.

Paint...typically you get what you pay for. For materials alone to paint a car with two stage color/clear will cost around $600....if you get body shop pricing. Thats for the middle grade stuff. If you go for something like a premium paint materials with three stage painting...looking at around $1100 body shop price. Then you tack on the labor for the paint work as well.

So it is always a loosing proposition in restoring just about any Alfa. You will be upside down to make it look right. This is for sure. But, if you want to learn, got the time and patience, and a place to store the car indoors, and the resolve and follow through to complete the project....go for it.

Look around ebay and autotrader and elsewhere.....just don't fall into the trap that so many do by starting into something like this...throwing a bunch of money and effort...and then never completing the car or getting to enjoy their efforts.

Best Regards,
John M

[JLGarbanzo]

Oh, and i would prefer a series 3. i dont like all the frills and glitz of the new spiders. I am looking for something a little older, with some character. And classic car insurance is also a good plus.

[JLGarbanzo]

Thanks John, the more I think about this, the more I think I’ll shy away from it. I don’t have the expertise to do the bodywork, and many parts of the interior are missing in the ‘84. Ill go back one more time and get some pictures to post, that way I can make a more accurate decision.

I starting to get the hint, I need to look out of state, possible way out west to get something good with no rust. So, my question is, how do I get something inspected all the way out in California, if I live in CT. I’ve heard of those inspection services, has anyone had any good experiences with any one in particular?