02-27-2008, 08:29 AM
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Watch out which "experts" you invite.......These experts are the ones that may have caused this confusion with their claims in the first place......
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02-27-2008, 08:35 AM
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by Elio Comello
I believe the GL1/GL4 designation is for the NON Moly synchro's in the earlier gearboxes.
Alfa Factory spec PA381500000000 for the 115 Spider, which updates the English language workshop manual lists acceptable GL5 lubricants in Dino 80W/90 and Syn 75W/90.
An individual can learn a lot by going to the Red Line website.
The "correct" Red Line oil for our transmission is 75W90NS.
One should bear in mind that we are looking at 20+ year old transmissions, Syn gear oils started to come on the scene not much before that time. Oil formulations even for the same product are much different today (2008).
All oils when reformulated, still need to be re-certified to carry their respective SAE and API Classifications.
Elio
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I have been on that redline site, and it is kinda scant as far as specifications/additives go. They cant be the only ones making a gear oil for our alfas. Industry/business doesnt work that way. They are dispelling "dark science" to the point of having duped the alfa comunity into thinking they are the only ones that will save our synchros. They are lacking , to me, of objective info, and specs.
Naturally suspicious,
Joe (Giuseppe)
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02-27-2008, 08:40 AM
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I dont know additives or work for any suppliers of oil, I only know I put in redline mtl in the winter of 2005 and my transmission shifts much better in my 74 spider.
cliff
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02-27-2008, 08:43 AM
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ReAlfisted 3/06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfacliff
I dont know additives or work for any suppliers of oil, I only know I put in redline mtl in the winter of 2005 and my transmission shifts much better in my 74 spider.
cliff
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1973 GTV - bought 3/06
1969 GTV, #AR1530021 - sold 10/72
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02-27-2008, 08:49 AM
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Redline is a good trans oil, as well as for diffs.
BG synroshift 1 and 2 both can substitute ATF and require no additives. There are road race and drag cars using it. I have personaly experience it, and it feels like a trans rebuild lol. No problems ever.
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[COLOR="Green"]When cornering hard.... It's not the tires screaming...[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]It's the road begging for mercy. [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]1985 Maserati[/COLOR][COLOR="Green"] Biturbo, 5spd. A work in progress. [/COLOR]
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02-27-2008, 09:38 AM
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Giuseppe, let me assure you you have not and are not about to lose 50% of your italian friends. BTW does your middle name start with an "H"?
Oil chemistry is NOT like analytical and pure chemistry, it is like wine making, certain aspects are dark science.
I would only advise that you put in GL5 spec oil in your trans "project". Whether it is Dino or Syn is your choice, but I would advise NOT to go with GL1/GL4.
(BTW I worked as an instrument engineer in process control in the lube plant, research pilot plant and test plant of one of the major lube oil refiners)
Ciao Giuseppe, snowing up here!, send some Spring please!
Elio
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02-27-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elio Comello
Giuseppe, let me assure you you have not and are not about to lose 50% of your italian friends. BTW does your middle name start with an "H"?
Oil chemistry is NOT like analytical and pure chemistry, it is like wine making, certain aspects are dark science.
I would only advise that you put in GL5 spec oil in your trans "project". Whether it is Dino or Syn is your choice, but I would advise NOT to go with GL1/GL4.
(BTW I worked as an instrument engineer in process control in the lube plant, research pilot plant and test plant of one of the major lube oil refiners)
Ciao Giuseppe, snowing up here!, send some Spring please!
Elio
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Hey Elio, thanks for shedding light on the dark aspect of this subject. OK, You convinced me not to use GL4. I will probably order some spirax 80w-90.
(darn, does this mean this thread may die now?)
Just realized I dont have to cover my coffee tree...it froze last month with that 40 degre cold snap..........maybe it will sprout in May??
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02-27-2008, 10:39 AM
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My 2 cents: I just put Redline MTL90 (75W-90) in my spider trans to help with extreme cold weather drivability. It helped. I can change gears in 35F degree weather without waiting for 45 minutes before driving off. I had Spirax 80W-90 before. Both are recommended for spider trans. There was nothing wrong with the Spirax in the summer.
I know that this does not answer your question about the GL4 vs GL5 dilemma, and definetly does not put the issue to rest. I'm not sure that we can find the differences between the two (who wants to try and post the unobjective results?). there will always be some question of objectivity in the research. That's why the issue of OIL, coolant, and brake fluid will not go away.
ps. Nissan was mentioned before, what year and model are we talking about?
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Tony G. in NJ
 87 Graduate - Calimero  '90 Toyota Tercel - Babbaluci
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02-27-2008, 11:09 AM
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ReAlfisted 3/06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WopJob
ps. Nissan was mentioned before, what year and model are we talking about?
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Redline 75W90 GL5+ Hypoid Gear Oil - SR20 Forum
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1973 GTV - bought 3/06
1969 GTV, #AR1530021 - sold 10/72
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02-27-2008, 11:27 AM
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But Mad North-Northwest
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Papa Sr
How can you make sense of it all? If you say the spec is GL5, then turn around and say Spirax is GL5 but without additives, when GL5 is basically WITH these additives , made for the hypoid gears, which are not even in the gearbox!! That is contradictory.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zungie
The confusion stems from the preference to use Redline synthetic oils. For the differential Redline 75W/90 is great. It contains EP (Extreme Pressure) modifiers. The EP modifiers however, make the oil too slippery to use in the gearbox, as the synchros won't like this. Thus, for the transmission one must use synthetic Redline 75W/90 NS. The "NS" (Non-Slip) being the critical designation, meaning that it does not contain the EP modifiers that make the oil too slippery.
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The problem is that you guys are confusing the additives. The GL-5 hypoid additives are EP additives (extreme pressure) and are not what mess up the synchronizers. The limited slip additive (a friction modifier, which is not in Spirax or Redline 75W90NS) is what messes up the synchronizers.
Spirax *absolutely* has EP additives, otherwise if you used it in the diff your pinion and ring gears would eat themselves.
There's an awful lot of debate about this subject considering that the factory recommended Spirax is cheap and works well 
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Tom
1991 Spider
1987 Milano Gold
Last edited by Gubi; 02-27-2008 at 11:29 AM.
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02-27-2008, 12:49 PM
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In the Spiders' nest...
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
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Gubi,
Yes, I did confuse the additives... I stand corrected on that description. However, I'm not confused as to the reason why the additive is not good for the tranny, and which product is supposed to go into the differential or gearbox, regardless of this being the factory specified Spirax or the synthetic Redline products... 
Best regards,
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Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
164 93L & 95Q
Milano 88 Verde
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02-27-2008, 12:52 PM
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Gubi hit the nail on the head, as usual....
And Giuseppe, the coffee tree will sprout again, only the top that got hit by the cold will die, look for a new sprout and cut off the dead top above the new sprout. What spec water are you going to give the poor thing?
Elio
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02-27-2008, 02:28 PM
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with the Librarian
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Location: New Jersey USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gubi
The problem is that you guys are confusing the additives. The GL-5 hypoid additives are EP additives (extreme pressure) and are not what mess up the synchronizers. The limited slip additive (a friction modifier, which is not in Spirax or Redline 75W90NS) is what messes up the synchronizers.
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I'm now at a loss as to how to explain why, after draining a hypoid EP gear oil out of an Alfa gearbox that had shifting issues, and replacing it with a non-EP lubricant (50 weight engine oil to be exact) that the shifting issues disappear.
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Jim
Series 1 Euro 1750 GTV
Series 2 US 1750 GTV
Series 3 Spider Veloce
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02-27-2008, 02:36 PM
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Location: Northern VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papajam
Now I'm confused. A limited slip additive reduces friction and a syncro works on the principle of friction. Would this then not improve the shifting by increasing the syncro friction?
I'm now at a loss as to how to explain why, after draining a hypoid EP gear oil out of an Alfa gearbox that had shifting issues, and replacing it with a non-EP lubricant (50 weight engine oil to be exact) that the shifting issues disappear.
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-Jason
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Jason Arrington
'60 Giulietta Spider
'74 Spider - For Sale
'67 Super project
'98 M3 Sedan
'04 Mazda TurboCumminsSuperDieselMax MPV (Alfa tow rig)
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02-27-2008, 02:57 PM
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But Mad North-Northwest
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papajam
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