Spider Price Guide?

[canguro]

Most of the literature that I have read seem to favor the 1750 engine as the best of the alloy DOHC-4s made by Alfa, primarily for its combination of power and willingness to rev. The 1750 roundtails also handled better in stock form, primarily because of the addition of a rear sway bar, the switch to wider and smaller diameter 14 inch wheels, and slightly larger front brake disks.

That having been said, when I was looking for a roundtail, I was unanimously steered by American Alfisti towards a Duetto because it was the first year in the U.S., it had the Weber carburetor, and is a pre-emissions model. I presume SCM's price guide is simply a reflection of what the typical U.S. Alfa collector/buyer values.

In an ideal world, I would like to have an original, rust-free Euro 1750 roundtail, which continued to be carbureted and is devoid of the smog and "safety" equipment found on the U.S. models. That may be the reason why European car magazines value the 1750 over a 1600. Unfortunately, in my copy of Classic & Sports Car magazine, they lump the roundtails together, pegging their market values in the range of 5,750 pounds for an average condition car, and 11,500 pounds for a show quality car.

[NikosF]

The 1969/70 roundtail is certainly a 'better' car for all the reasons noted (more displacement, better brakes) - but does that make it more desirable? A Ferrari 308 is a 'better' car than a Ferrari 250 GTO - it's more modern and has more creature comforts. They are both fantastic cars which I would love to own - which is worth more?

I certainly wouldn't describe the 1600 as 'underpowered' relative to the 1750. All the Spiders are underpowered (even the 2000) relative to modern sportscars, but the fractional power increase of the 1750 over the 1600 doesn't add that much to the desirability of the driving experience.

I too started off wanting a 1969 1750 and almost bought one for the reasons previously noted. I drove both - and in the end I decided I wanted a 1600. The difference in driving experience was negligible and the 1600 is the car Dustin Hoffman drove in the Graduate, and it's the only Duetto (the name was not used at all by 1968/9) and it's the original 105 Spider - so it's the one I wanted. Choosing the 69 would have been as valid a choice.

I think there are too few roundtails being sold - in such varying states of condition - to state definitively which is worth more - especially over the long term. The most expensive one I saw sold in the past 18 months was a 1600 - went for >$20K. But that was more to do with the condition than the year I suspect.

In the end people will argue for the car they bought - especially if they have decided to spend a lot of money on it. 69Spider - I promise not to call your car ugly (those bumper modifications), if you don't call my car underpowered!

[GianniB]

I think 69Spider needs to take his rose colored glasses off for a while...

I think the disparity between the 1600 and 1750 round tails in the US is due to the old carbs vs. SPICA debate. How many posts do you see here and on the AD about converting from SPICA to Webers? Also the 1969 version of SPICA is different than the 1971 and later SPICA so I think that also contributes. Additionally you can't compare the Brit market with the US - it's totally different with regards to Alfas.

Enjoy yours,

[Roadtrip]

Actually, I see surprisingly few posts concerning converting to Webers. In fact, I think I'm seeing more interest in preserving the SPICA cars in stock form. Hopefully the BB has contributed to a better understanding of the system and a willingness invest a little booklearning to maintain it well. While the 69s did have a different logic section to the FI pump and a slightly different idle air circuit, a later model pump can be substituted without problem. Further, overhaul of '69 pumps is readily available.

Personally, I don't see what there is to debate about concerning 1600s and the 1750 models. Both are wonderful sports cars and I would be happy to own either (or preferably BOTH) of them!

As far as investor value goes, I could care less. I own one to drive and enjoy, not to sell.

[desert spider]

Not withstanding the higher market price for the 1750's and Duetto's, and the rather unkind remarks about the "unloved" early '80's spiders, I bought an '84 Spider Veloce last year with only 27,500 original miles on it. The car is unmarked with original paint and unmarked leather seats. I've put some money into it such as replacing some dried out rubber bushings, muffler hangers, etc. I also replaced the entire exhaust system with headers, flow thru cat. converter and stainless mufflers all of which improved the performance substantially. Notwithstanding the unfortunate black rubber spoiler, it is an attractive and reasonably economical daily driver, and I wouldn't part with it. I paid in excess of fair market value because of the excellent condition and it's emotional pull. My best advise is not to turn your nose up at any Spider but make your purchase decision based on condition. If you are looking for a reliable daily driver, you're not going to find it in an older Spider unless it is very low mileage like mine or unless someone has spent a lot of money in restoring it and prices it accordingly. I drive my so-called (by someone who expresses his own opinion, by no means universal)"unloved" '84 daily, and every day someone comments on it's good looks, and I live in an area where Ferrari's, Jags, Astons and the like are not uncommon. So look for a good one and enjoy it.
Jim
Desert Spider '84

[84GTV6]

DesertSpider has obviously missed my point! Buy any car you wish, it's you that you have to please. BUT, what I meant to convey is that you can buy ANY spider (or Alfa) and it'll be fun......even MY unloved beater that I bought cheap and drive everywhere. Why? Cuz it's a great car and it didn't cost $20,000!!

I wish I had a pristine Duetto, I don't. But I'm still smilin' when I drive home from work!

Sheesh people........lighten up.


SSShhhhhhh, I have an Alfetta Sport Sedan too. No it aint pretty. Can I still play in the sandbox?!

[canguro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadtrip Personally, I don't see what there is to debate about concerning 1600s and the 1750 models. Both are wonderful sports cars and I would be happy to own either (or preferably BOTH) of them! As far as investor value goes, I could care less. I own one to drive and enjoy, not to sell.

[69Spider]

As do I, in fact we drive all our alfas. The duetto got almost 10k last year and I don't intend to stop driving it when we get it finished.

The question was about valuation and there are lots of resources regarding valuation and most are wrong given the realities seen in the marketplace over the past year.

If investment is your game then there are far better cars out there to buy if you're interested in making a buck. If you want a great car then the Alfa's a great choice.

There are different kinds of alfa owners, some like me are interested in restoring and keeping them original and as close to perfect as possible, driving them hard (is there any other way?) and enjoying all the great people we meet at shows, etc. Then there are others who like to modify them and make them even better for aggressive jaunts. My point was that there are some models that are a better choice depending on what type of owner you consider yourself.

Would you think a 2600 touring spider would be a good daily driver? with parts becoming harder to find I would say no... smoe may disagree.

In either case find one, buy it and enjoy!

J

[Cali67Duetto]

The bottom line in the purchase of my Duetto was that it was the best deal I found at the time I was looking. I wanted a 1969, but could not find one that matched the deal I got for the 1966. If I had bought a 69, I would have put Webers on it anyways; I just like the way they look.....

I didn't buy the car because I thought it would payoff in the future, I bought the car because in 1985 I drove a Alfa spider and loved it (test drive from Alfa of Beverly Hills). I am a little older, got a little more money in my pocket and wanting a spider.... again. I was thinking a 1987 spider, saw a 1969 roundtail and it was all over. I had to have a roundtail. The more I read about the older the Alfa's the more I wanted one. In the end I ended up with a 1600 Duetto, is it worth more then a 1969? Some guys claim the 1750 is better, more horse power, bigger breaks..... can you really tell the difference?

If you you are making a case about which is more collectable or desirable, sorry 1750 guys, I would think it's the 1600 Duetto. It is the "Duetto". It is the original, it is the first of that model. The first is important..... how important..... who was the second guy to step foot on the moon?

[DaveC]

The first is important..... how important..... who was the second guy to step foot on the moon?

That would be Buzz Aldrin!!!!

[beatle_bayly]

I believe the Italians still use the term DUETTO for ALL 105 series Spiders (incl 115) ? We westerners tend to use the term for the 1600, and extend it to refer to all the roundies, but technically Alfa never used it so it's really only a nickname.

We really are a strange lot aren't we

[Bill77]

Can anyone name the only model year when Alfa actually put the name "Duetto" on the car?

[GianniB]

One might make the case for the 1966 Spider, but they ran into some infringement trouble with the name Duetto from a biscuit maker and quietly dropped the name:

http://www.alfacentro.com/features/d...ame/index.html

Cheers,

[canguro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill77 Can anyone name the only model year when Alfa actually put the name "Duetto" on the car?

[MSshaefer]

Hey Mark,
I live in Owensboro. The weather is changing and I am going to have to start looking for some shoes to wear. When does UK start their football season? I have just started looking for a Spider 1982-89? If you can help drop me a note.
Thanks, Maury