Transmission/suspension upgrades?

[oldschooleuros]

Well, as I go on, I am thinking to peice together a awesome alfa. With my plans, the tranny may not cut it. I have heard these trannys are weakish.... Is there someone that upgrades them, or can I swap it out for a different one?
In addition, are there any performance suspension componets? Where can I find them?
Thanks again guys
Matt

[block]

It's not the trannies per say. True, the syncros are rather weak, many lay blame on the gears being over built as the reason for syncro failure. If you do a search you can find many threads on gear lightning which many claim to help the situation. I just learned to double clutch and rev match...Of coarse, depending on your power goal, those pesky donuts can be trouble but I think they are ok up to 200hp or so. Someone with more knowledge then me will chime in shortly...

The supplier list is a great place to find parts...THE LIST

[AlfaTango1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschooleuros Well, as I go on, I am thinking to peice together a awesome alfa. With my plans, the tranny may not cut it. I have heard these trannys are weakish.... Is there someone that upgrades them, or can I swap it out for a different one? In addition, are there any performance suspension componets? Where can I find them? Thanks again guys Matt

[Geezer]

Didn't Paul Spruell mate a Ford top loader trans to a 2L Alfa engine in one of his race cars?

[adelspyder]

Hi Matt,

Seeing as you’ve posted this on the Spider forum, I guess that we’re not talking about a transaxle setup.

I can only speak about my brother’s experience with his V6 Spider project. Initially, his plans were to use the std Alfa gearbox, as here in Australia people were even fitting these behind the Holden V8’s at some stage (there was a local company that made a bellhousing for this purpose), but he did do research on alternatives as well, and he thought that the 5 speed Getrag 265 would be his preferred gearbox if he really wanted to get serious about big numbers.

However, part-way through the project, he started to have a chat with a local company that makes gearboxes, and he showed them the internals of the Spider ‘box. Their review of the internals had them compare it to a Nissan ‘box of similar construction which they knew would prematurely fail in anything above 210Nm of torque. Further discussions with Alfa specialists here in Oz (like Beninca’s) went along the lines of “Well, it should be okay, but…….” Not really confidence inspiring, huh?

With the V6 planned to have between 230~250Nm, he really wondered whether to pour another AUD$2.5~$3k into it for better / stronger gears (and still have a slow-shifting box, maybe even a noisier as well depending on the cut of the gears), or to bite the bullet once and for all and fork out for an inherently stronger, more refined box. Given that the costs would be about $500 more for the latter, he decided that the Getrag install would be his preferred option (do it once, then forget it).

I’d be really interested in the replies to this thread (I think that the hands on experience and opinions of either Richard Jemison or Max Banks would be invaluable here) but it might pay to share with the group what your projected HP / Torque requirements are so that others in the know can recommend certain upgrades and estimate the $$ involved. That way, you can make a more informed decision as to whether to upgrade / replace the trans.

Dino

[davelgee]

For my project, I see a 'frame stiffiner' as the next step. The suspension is basicly stock save Konis and I plan to install the suspension stiffiner and possibly some poly or PTFB (teflon) bushings next - this should give me a more stable starting point for other mods. I really think the FS is one of the most cost effective things you can do, and that it should be done first in order to get as much body flex out of the mix as possible.
I have never had any real problems with the Alfa trans. beyond the syncros needing replaced on some hi milage/poorly driven cars. Of course if you plan on much greater than stock torque/horsepower you will want to look into stronger drivetrain components.

Just my .02

Cheers!
Dave G.

[Zunige]

The stock transmission is easily good for 200 hp. The second gear synchro has a lot to do with who owned the car and how they shifted. There are several threads which discuss synchros, and more than a couple of posts from people who don't have any issues with their synchros. If you are going to spend $$ to give a Spider more power, the tranny should not enter into the equation, unless it needs to be rebuilt. Trust me, unless you have some serious cash to throw away, you will over-stretch yourself financially doing power upgrades long before you exceed the limits of a Spider transmission.

Best regards,

[oldschooleuros]

I am going for a custom turbocharger setup, so I guess I will run it until it is time lol. I dont mind a loud trans with strait cut gears for example. It does not bother me. I will run it until I feel it cannot take much more, and maybe have the gears cryoed.
As for the frame stiffener, is that like a chassis x brace?
Thanks

[Zunige]

If you are going to do your own turbo work you'll need a $5k budget. If you are planning on paying someone, figure $12k - $15k.

The chassis stiffener is a common solution for convertibles, since they loose rigidity due to the lack of a top. Click here for a picture on the Centerline web site.

Best regards,

[oldschooleuros]

Thankks zunige for the help. I will be doing the turbo work at college, and fabbing it all myself, so it may be a little less. I shall have to wait and see. If it does cost 5, thats ok too.

[oldschooleuros]

On that supplier list, I see you list Paeco. I have known of these guys for quite some time but never ordered from there. Does anyone have experience with these guys? They have some nice cams, HGs, clutches etc and I wouldnt mind giving them a shot.
Thanks again, I have learned a ton in a few days of being here.

[andyb6]

I am not sure how much power you think you are going to make or how you are going to drive it, but probably the biggest bang for the buck will be a Jerico 4-speed Jerico RR4 Road Race 4 Speed Top / Bottom Loader Transmission Taylor race engineering in Texas has an adapterplate to the alfa bellhousing as well as solutions for clutch and driveshaft. The flat/fat torque curve of a turbo motor should compensate for the loss of a gear.

[oldschooleuros]

Andy
My goal as my setup gets to its finish, with a built motor and a supporting turbo is over 300. I have never seen it done, but I will make it happen.
As for that trans, is that a direct drop in? Looks like a nice unit.
As for how I am going to drive it, simple let out the clutch.
I have owned many fast cars, nothing too new to me. It may take a few years, but it will get done. I am taking a custom chassis fab class at UNOH, so who knows, maybe my project will be to put a supra 5 speed behind this motor.

[andyb6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschooleuros Andy My goal as my setup gets to its finish, with a built motor and a supporting turbo is over 300. I have never seen it done, but I will make it happen. As for that trans, is that a direct drop in? Looks like a nice unit. As for how I am going to drive it, simple let out the clutch. I have owned many fast cars, nothing too new to me. It may take a few years, but it will get done. I am taking a custom chassis fab class at UNOH, so who knows, maybe my project will be to put a supra 5 speed behind this motor.

[oldschooleuros]

Awesome, I am in Ohio too, how convienent.
The muncie 4 is a auto, correct?
I want to try and keep a manual. I can probably put a ford 8.8 or 9" in the car myself, after I find the limits of the factory lol.