Paul Spruell-an Australian that makes 90mm liners-need answers

[slyalfa]

I have to agree with conedriver I think the pistons will be touching. the stock liners have to have flats on them so they will fit next to each other and there is a thinspot there.
and you want to add boost too. it seems the the bore to bore will be very very close. the mono well help but you still need some space. you can not have the pistons overlaping each other.
lets see if that can be worked out you will run in to the next problem of the head lifting under boost.
a 'O' ring will help and I guess replace the studs with arp. might need to also tie the mains together with some sort of a plate. might see what Jim Steck's Bonneville Alfa has done they had to deal with a lot of this and there is a lot of good info there. he was in the 400bhp range.

[ddouglas77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyalfa I have to agree with conedriver I think the pistons will be touching. the stock liners have to have flats on them so they will fit next to each other and there is a thinspot there. and you want to add boost too. it seems the the bore to bore will be very very close. the mono well help but you still need some space. you can not have the pistons overlaping each other. lets see if that can be worked out you will run in to the next problem of the head lifting under boost. a 'O' ring will help and I guess replace the studs with arp. might need to also tie the mains together with some sort of a plate. might see what Jim Steck's Bonneville Alfa has done they had to deal with a lot of this and there is a lot of good info there. he was in the 400bhp range.

[andyb6]

DDouglas

Look up Jim Steck of Auto Componenti in Ohio. He has made monosleeves AND turbo'd a few Alfa 4's. He and Besic Motorsports did a joint venture on a 2.ol turbo twinspark that was running 20+ pounds boost and made 550hp at the rear wheels for their Bonneville Salt flats land speed record holding spider.
I would think a few more pounds of boost would give you more torque cheaper and faster than the R&D needed to make/source custom sleeves, rods, crank and pistons.

[ddouglas77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyb6 DDouglas Look up Jim Steck of Auto Componenti in Ohio. He has made monosleeves AND turbo'd a few Alfa 4's. He and Besic Motorsports did a joint venture on a 2.ol turbo twinspark that was running 20+ pounds boost and made 550hp at the rear wheels for their Bonneville Salt flats land speed record holding spider. I would think a few more pounds of boost would give you more torque cheaper and faster than the R&D needed to make/source custom sleeves, rods, crank and pistons.

[conedriver]

Andy is corect about cost and time. Jim told me that he machined the aluminum monosleeve on his NC milling machine, and the process took a week. This is before he inserted the steel cylinder sleeves. There's also the issue of computer modelling the design to create the NC tool path for the monosleeve and engine block. Just imagine the cost of this if it was farmed out to a traditional machine shop.

Or, consider moving the individual cylinders sideways. This is how the 1275 cc engines for Sprites & Minis are enlarged to near 1500cc. The dimension between cylinders won't accomodate larger bores, so #1 is bored to the left, #2 is bored to the right, etc. (of course, this is on a cast iron block).

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyb6 DDouglas Look up Jim Steck of Auto Componenti in Ohio. He has made monosleeves AND turbo'd a few Alfa 4's. He and Besic Motorsports did a joint venture on a 2.ol turbo twinspark that was running 20+ pounds boost and made 550hp at the rear wheels for their Bonneville Salt flats land speed record holding spider. I would think a few more pounds of boost would give you more torque cheaper and faster than the R&D needed to make/source custom sleeves, rods, crank and pistons.

[andyb6]

While we are talking about spiraling costs.....The Alfa transmission will split at about 200 ft/lbs and the rear end at about the same time. So plan on a tremec, jerico etc. trans and a ford 9" rear end. Of course that will mean custom drive shaft(s).

I am excitedly following this thread. If you can go 120mph on a tired Bosch motor, I imagine I will hear the sonic boom in Chicago with your stroked and turboed monster!

[ghnl]

Would it be cheaper to buy & finish Brock's project...?

[Greg Gordon]

I have to agree with andyb6 about the boost vs displacement issue. It's a lot less expensive and easier to increase the boost.

Ddouglas, your point about increasing the baseline is valid, but it's just not cost effective. You can get enough power to break everything in the car aft of the engine without the expensive displacement increase. I would focus on boost and intercooling.

Greg

[ddouglas77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Gordon I have to agree with andyb6 about the boost vs displacement issue. It's a lot less expensive and easier to increase the boost. Ddouglas, your point about increasing the baseline is valid, but it's just not cost effective. You can get enough power to break everything in the car aft of the engine without the expensive displacement increase. I would focus on boost and intercooling. Greg

[andyb6]

One last thing to consider. You will likely want to consider a full roll cage. Simply put, the spider unibody is going to need lots of help with the torsional loads of all of this power. If you get all of that power to the ground you might blow the doors open and fold the car in half! I have seen spiders that didn't appear rusty on the outside, however when 2 well-fed adults got in at the same time the doors would not close!

A Jerico 4-speed racing trans will fit, have unlimited gear selections, handle around 1200 ft/lb fit in the tunnel and cost around $5500 new. You can find them used for $2500. With the flat power curve that a turbo motor puts out, there is no need for all of those extra gears to spin. The Bonneville car has a 4 speed and it went over 200mph.

[ddouglas77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyb6 One last thing to consider. You will likely want to consider a full roll cage. Simply put, the spider unibody is going to need lots of help with the torsional loads of all of this power.

[genericwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddouglas77 I've been told you and Mr. Steck have some kind of relationship, care to share?

[ddouglas77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by genericwood Andy, does your wife know about this? You guys seem so happy. Erik

[andyb6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by genericwood Andy, does your wife know about this? You guys seem so happy. Erik