non start issue - Page 3

alfaboy85 · #31 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 05:42 PM

well this is the coil that the guy at napa said was a direct replacement. My spider before had a coil that was a single piece so i'm assuming its an internal ballast and this new coil is an exact copy, probably a bosch unit too without the name on the front

alfaboy85 · #32 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 09:55 PM

okay, so now that the coil and the sensors are installed i have a spark but the engine still wont turn over, any ideas now?

**Tifosi** · #33 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 10:03 PM

Turn over as in crank or turn over as in fire and run?

If the starter turns it and you've got fire & fuel, then you need to make sure the sensors are connected correctly, the timing is set properly, that you plugged the AFM back in if you unhooked for some reason and that all the vacuum hoses are in place.

Also AAV hooked up and functioning, cold start injector firing and there's prolly a couple other things, up to and including making sure the flywheel really did get put back on with correct orientation(IRRC, you had it out, right?)

Mabe a run through with ghnls helpful tidbits as found over at High performance store might be of use too.

alfaboy85 · #34 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 10:14 PM

it cranks but wont turn over, i've now triple checked the connections and everything is right, although the more i think the more i dread that fact that i may have mounted the flywheel in the wrong position. I mounted the flywheel when the mark was a P but the P comes up more than once and I dont think i took that into consideration.

**ghnl** · #35 (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 08:05 AM

Yeah, you could have the flywheel installed incorrectly...

Position the #1 piston at TDC on compression. As you have realized, the piston goes to TDC twice - compression and at the end of the exhaust stroke.

Pull the spark plugs (that makes it easier to turn the crankshaft). Turn the engine until #1 is at TDC on compression (you can feel air being pushed out of the spark plug hole as the piston goes up on the compression stroke). Align the crank pulley to the "P".

First check the ignition timing. Note where the #1 spark plug's wire plugs into the cap. Then remove the cap and make sure the rotor is aimed at that location. Also check that the rotor is aimed at the small mark on the edge of the distributor's base (picture in the link at Hi Performance Store). If the plug wires are incorrectly installed into the cap you'll gat a spark but it won't be timed correctly. Fix that and cross your fingers! Firing order is 1-3-4-2

If the distributor is OK - before moving the crank - remove the flywheel sensors and peek inside the hole where they mount. I think that the flywheel's magnet will align with one of the sensor locations if it is was installed correctly. If you can't find the magnet that way then I fear you're looking at R/R the gearbox to re-install the flywheel correctly.

alfaboy85 · #36 (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 02:19 PM

Yeah I checked the cap last night and after a sobering hour of checking everything I think I've resigned myself to realizing I made a real newbie mistake and I need to fix it. Whatever I guess, I mean between my friend and I, we think we can knock it out in 8-10 hours of work. Hey at least doing another clutch job later will be easy for us

autoxsteve · #37 (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghnl

...I think that the flywheel's magnet will align with one of the sensor locations if it is was installed correctly. If you can't find the magnet that way then I fear you're looking at R/R the gearbox to re-install the flywheel correctly.

**ghnl** · #38 (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autoxsteve

I'm surprised that the flywheel can go on more than one way.

alfaboy85 · #39 (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 03:14 PM

and of course i hit the one of the six. I cant explain the frustration that seethed through me when i realized what i had done.

**Tifosi** · #40 (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 03:16 PM

It could be worse, you could have had a fit of spontanious human combustion and lost the car in the ensuing fire....

**ghnl** · #41 (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tifosi

you could have had a fit of spontanious human combustion...

**Tifosi** · #42 (**permalink**) 02-27-2007, 04:06 PM

Oh that's a different scenario entirely.

Ghostrider vs spontanious human combustion would be like trying to compare man thing to swamp thing:

One is a plant that acts human, while the other used to be a human that became a plant.

Subtle but significant differences.

(geeze my life is small......)

alfaboy85 · #43 (**permalink**) 03-07-2007, 04:39 PM

so I took the trans off to find out it is installed correctly. Number one is at TDC and the white mark is facing up. Any ideas?

**ghnl** · #44 (**permalink**) 03-07-2007, 05:44 PM

Did you replace the coil? Are you sure the distributor cap & rotor are good? A minute crack in either can prevent spark from getting to the plugs.

Is #1 at TDC on its compression stroke? #1 goes to TDC twice - once on compression and also at the end of the exhaust stroke. TDC/compression will have the cam lobes pointing away from each other - intake pointing right, exhaust pointing left.

Is the magnet installed in the edge of the flywheel? It looks like a brake bleeder.

With #1 at TDC/compression remove the distributor cap and note where the rotor is pointing. Is it aimed at the spot where the #1 spark plug wire connects? Are the plug wires installed in the correct firing order? (1-3-4-2) I'll bet many Alfa's have their distributor 180 degrees off. That isn't a big problem - you just have to get the plug wires into the new 'right' place.

Worst case scenario is a fried ECU (computer). That is rare but not impossible. There really isn't a way to test the ECU except by replacement. First make 100% certain that everything else is working (sensors, grounds, harness connections, etc).

alfaboy85 · #45 (**permalink**) 03-08-2007, 12:53 AM

So these are pics of the flywheel that have me confused. In pic one you see the white mark at 12 o clock. Mind you all the engine is set that number one is at TDC. Why do I have another mark 180 degrees out though? yes i replaced the coil and I was getting spark so I dont think its the dizzy cap. how would my dizzy have gotten turned 180 around