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Trans mount

47K views 98 replies 43 participants last post by  bianchi2 
#1 ·
PO gave me a new Trans mount with the car. I am assuming the one in it is bad. What would be the signs of a bad trans mount? The car has some issues (its an Alfa) and i want to see if they are related.

Publio
 
#2 ·
Some signs the mount may be bad:

Sagging at the cross member (lower portion of mount housing should be around 1/2" or more from the bottom of the member if mount is firm)

A lot of flex/torsion in the trans when driving (shifter moves quite a bit left or right on acceleration or deceleration. shifter may even hit the console if it's real bad)

The ability to lay under the car and shuck the rear of the trans around by hand (a good mount is pretty solid)

Rumbly noises as rear of trans settles down on the mount and transmits vibration.

Prolly more than those, but a start anyway.
 
#4 ·
You can do it yourself through a couple methods:

The first is while in the car using the tool designed for it (though somewhere on the board is an alternate means of doing the same thing without it) and removing the mount that goes to the frame.

You put the new trans bush next to the old and one presses the other out.

The other 'can' be done in car, but is easier with the trans out:

Remove the mount plate and burn the center out of the rubber bushing then hacksaw (making very sure you cut none of the aluminum trans housing) the outer portion of the mount to remove the rest of it.

Freeze the new mount for an hour or so and when ready, heat up the trans housing with a propane torch til spit sizzles off it (highly calibrated temperature testing means) and literally slip the frozen mount in place.

*if the trans is out, you could also use a press to remove and install the stuff.


No matter what method you use, make sure the mount is orientated correctly to the trans otherwise you'll have some serious problems getting it back together and functioning correctly. (again, there is a pic of the orientation here somewhere that can be found with the search)
 
#5 ·
I made up an extractor, based on a threaded rod/bolt concept. I used a machined brass ram and a plastic receiver.

I was able to extract the old support without burning.

I was able to install the new one without heating, but I did cool the new one.

Using a new support bushing to press out the old, work fine if the trans is out, but you can not do it on the car.

I can give you more detail if you like (can't do pictures) and if you are not in a terrible hurry could send you my "tool" on loan for the postage. But I am on the US border (Michigan), in Canada, so could not easily ship to you for a week or two.

Best regards, Elio
 
#6 ·
Elio Comello said:
I made up an extractor, based on a threaded rod/bolt concept. I used a machined brass ram and a plastic receiver.

I was able to extract the old support without burning.

I was able to install the new one without heating, but I did cool the new one.

Using a new support bushing to press out the old, work fine if the trans is out, but you can not do it on the car.

I can give you more detail if you like (can't do pictures) and if you are not in a terrible hurry could send you my "tool" on loan for the postage. But I am on the US border (Michigan), in Canada, so could not easily ship to you for a week or two.

Best regards, Elio
Elio, if you could provide all of us with the specs and materials for your homemade extractor, that would be great. That kind of knowledge is valuable to me, at least.

Thanks.

Thomas
 
#7 ·
What I used...

...was a pipe cap for 1.5" ID pipe and a 6" 2-Jaw gear puller.
Tool

The pipe cap (Lowe's, Home Despot, etc) needed a 1/16th or less ground from its outer periphery and I then flattened the top and drilled a small hole to index the point of the gear puller.
Metal

Work from the passenger (right) side as the exhaust may interfere...ridiculously easy to push old mount right out. Installation of new one was nearly as easy, just ensure mount is perfectly aligned (freezing did help) and oriented. OBTW, The 2-jaw gear puller is available for ~$20 refundable deposit only at most discount auto part joints (Autozone). After reading previous thread on this topic, I truly feared this job, however the pipe cap made it **** near trivial.
Cheers!
 
#14 ·
Gotta love this board.

...was a pipe cap for 1.5" ID pipe and a 6" 2-Jaw gear puller.
Thanks for the posts and suggestions. I used the cap and gear puller today to do my trans mount. It worked well to get out the old mount.

I ended up jacking the front of the motor up using a jack and plywood square to lower the trans housing a little, so the puller would line up better. I also unbolted the drive shaft support.

Gear puller wasnt long enough to push the new one in with the cap, so I put the new mount in the freezer and heated the housing with a small bottle torch. Little grease and she slipped in by hand most of the way and was persuaded in the rest with a rubber mallet.

I bought the IAP trans mount reinforcements... I dont recommend them. They forced the tranny up so far, my gear shifter was hitting the console while just sitting there. I pulled them out without even driving it.

Regards,
Phil
 
#21 · (Edited)
I kind of doubt it. It takes a LOT more force to remove those bushings than the transmission mount. The trans mount almost seems to go in too easily - maybe because the trans. is aluminum, the bushing is steel, and the whole thing is well-oiled. Trailing arm bushings are steel-steel with no oil, so they get rusted in place - it takes a lot of "oomph" to break them loose. I use a hydraulic press. I don't see how the trailing arm bushings could be done with the arms still in the car, since there are bushings at both ends - by the time you unbolt both bushings, the thing is on the ground.

I have never removed trunion arm bushings. My guess is that like trailing arm bushings, they are a tight press fit.

Using a pipe cap for 1.5" ID pipe as the "pusher" for the trans mount is brilliant. I would check the OD of the cap to be certain that it isn't larger than the OD of the bushing. Different manufacturers' caps may have different dimensions. And, since the OD is just a rough casting, even different ones from the same manufacturer may be smaller/larger. A little clean-up with a grinder could prevent scoring the ID of the transmission loop.
 
#10 ·
BattleBug said:
...was a pipe cap for 1.5" ID pipe and a 6" 2-Jaw gear puller.

...

After reading previous thread on this topic, I truly feared this job, however the pipe cap made it **** near trivial.
Cheers!
Paul, I've gotta say - you are the MAN!!!

Tried this out tonight and it worked perfectly - the pipe cap I got didn't even need to be ground down. Thanks for such a cheap, simple solution - the kind someone like me can both afford and make work!

-Jason
 
#13 ·
We should have a Hall of Fame post site! THANKS!!!!!! I trully work! THANKS!!!! outstanding POST!
I took the opotunity and replace the mount with the reinforcement from International but now the motor when front-down and the main pulley goes against the stabilization bar... So... I think I should agree with some other post that this tras-mount should be consider to change in conjuction with the motor mounts...

Once again! thanks!
CC
 
#15 ·
I used the same $3.29 Home Depot-sourced 1-1/2" pipe cap as well when changing my trans mount last week. But for the record, it can be easily used without the gear puller if the transmission's on the floor. Center the pipe cap, whack it with a hammer a couple of times and it's out. Can't tell you if it works while the transmission is in the car.

I also highly recommend the "freeze one, heat the other" method for new mount installation; very slick......
 
#28 · (Edited)
I used the same $3.29 Home Depot-sourced 1-1/2" pipe cap as well when changing my trans mount last week. But for the record, it can be easily used without the gear puller if the transmission's on the floor. Center the pipe cap, whack it with a hammer a couple of times and it's out. Can't tell you if it works while the transmission is in the car.
I just replaced the transmission mount in my Spider using the 1 1/2" pipe cap and a hammer method with the transmission installed so it does work with the transmission in the car. I simply removed the steel trans mount bracket from the chassis and trans mount and let the rear of the transmission hang down. Using one hand to hold the pipe cap centered on the old mount and using the other to hit the cap with a ball peen hammer, the old mount came out in less than a minute. There is just enough room to swing the hammer under the passenger side floor to strike the cap in the middle. I did this with new engine mounts installed, so there should be even more room to the swing the hammer with old sagged engine mounts.

Installing the new one is a little more tricky, but it isn't that hard. Start by lubing the new mount and transmission mount hole (I used anti-seize, but any grease or heavy oil should work). Now hold the new mount in the correct orientation against the mount hole in the transmission from the passenger's side. Take the hammer and tap it lightly around the edge until it sticks in the hole (the new mount has a tapered edge to help it go into the hole). Get your head directly under the mount hole in the transmission so you can look up at it to make sure the new mount is not ****ed in the hole. If it it is ****ed, keep tapping on the edge of the mount opposite of the side that is in too far. When you are satisfied that the new mount is straight in the hole, place the pipe cap onto the new mount and drive the mount home with the hammer. It is incredibly easy and should not take you more than 30 minutes once you have the car raised to gain good access.

I actually had more trouble with the bolt holding the steel chassis mount to the old transmission mount than I did installing the new mount. It was rusted to the tube in the trans mount so turning the bolt simply turned the tube in the mount with it and the rubber in the mount deflected with the turning of the tube so I stopped turning the bolt for fear of ripping the tube free from the rest of the mount. The only thing that saved me is that a good soaking with Aero-Kroil and some firm strikes of a hammer on the end of the bolt broke down the rust enough that I was eventually able to get the bolt to turn inside of the mount tube. If the Aero-Kroil hadn't worked, it would have been a long day with a welding torch and/or Sawsall to gain access and cut the bolt without damaging the steel chassis mount. Needless to say that bolt was cleaned of all corrosion and liberally coated with anti-seize before it went back in!
 
#17 ·
Paul, et al:

I used this method and with a little heat to the housing,. it worked like a charm!! Many thanks and FWIW.... I became a gold member tonight for this and many other valuable tips I have received from this forum. It is truly an invaluable resource if you own an Alfa.

I noticed the (2) rubber donuts on the adjacent "hanger" bracket near the rear mount. As I am trying to replace most, if not all, of the original rubber bushings on my 88 Spider while I am into it, I looked in IAP catalog but don't see them listed. Any info on them? Do I need to replace? Are they available and where?
Thanks
 
#18 · (Edited)
You mean these?


They're worth replacing if they've got the rot, oil contamination, whatever as they not only help support the exhaust, the bracket helps keep the exhaust in line with the engine so that joints don't open up over time due to engine torque.

EG: without them, you'll be tightening the exhaust manifold to head nuts much more frequently.
 
#23 ·
Looks like them Darren... gotta check next time out to the barn. Late response as my modem bit the dust and just got back on line - $75 bucks I could have spent on Alfa!

Thanks for the link. Ordered a box full of parts today from IAP but forgot to ask on these..also have my injectors en route. Should be a busy weekend, good its gonna rain.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Installing the new mount: Lokki's gambit

I tried the 'heat n' freeze' method of installing the new mount and found that it wasn't working (maybe because it's 102 degrees here this week?) and so I ended up making a simple tool for installing the mount that worked pretty easily for me. It isn't up there with the genius of the pipe cap tool, but I had the new mount installed in about 10 minutes without any blood or cursing, so I thought I'd put it out here.

I was using a rented Pep Boy's 2/3 arm gear puller as shown above for the pipe cap removal trick. I removed the arms, and unscrewed the arm holder completely from the threaded rod. I bought two washers big enough to go around the threaded rod but small enough to be retained by the head of the rod. I then took a small block of wood and drilled a hole in it big enough for the rod to pass through - see the picture below

Wood Furniture


I then got under the car and put lithium grease in the inside of the ring that holds the transmission mount in the transmission casing. I then put the threaded rod through the mount hole on the transmission from the driver's side with the washers and the wood block installed. I then slid the metal bushing in the new transmission mount onto the threaded rod, and lined it up in position. I then screwed on the gear-puller-arm-mount onto the end of the threaded rod so that it held the mount snugly against the hole in the aluminum transmission casing.

I then put lithium grease on the outside of the mount all the way around to ease its movement into the hole in the casing.

Next I put a ratchet on the head of the threaded rod and started to pull the transmission mount into the hole in the transmission casing. The mount is pulled in from the passenger side towards the driver's side. The wood block protects the casing and still gives the threaded rod something to pull against. The three legs of the gear puller arm-mount extend to the outside metal ring of the mount so there is no strain on the rubber while the mount is pulled into the casing.

When the inward movement 'stalled' I took a small BFH and tapped against the legs of the gear puller arm mount, moving the mount into the casing. I didn't tap that hard or that often, but it seemed to work better than just cranking harder on the ratchet. Then I'd resume ratcheting.

The whole thing only took about 10 minutes after the tool was made.

Below is a picture of the tool in action.


Auto part Suspension Vehicle Brake Vehicle brake


Side note: I used a "box end style" ratchet wrench (for which I paid $8) as it was easier get into action than a traditional 'change the head' style ratchet wrench. A worthwhile investment.

Finally, below, for your amusement, is what I found acting as my transmission mount before I changed it. The PO strikes again!


I'm hoping that this means that my 2nd gear crunch is going to be greatly reduced - hey a fella can dream, can't he? :D

Praline Food Chocolate Fashion accessory Cuisine
 
#30 ·
I understand the fear of using a hammer especially with that aluminum case, but if you are careful and line up the mount to the pipe cap carefully, a small ball peen hammer knocks out the old mount in about 3-4 strikes. I'm not endorsing using a large hammer and undue force on the mount, rather careful well placed blows with a small ball peen hammer. The transmission mount to transmission case interface is not very tight at all and is closer to a slip fit than a press fit - it is somewhat less than a large wheel bearing race to hub clearance on a brake rotor.
 
#31 ·
I tried the hammering and air chisel to no avail with the transmission in the vehicle. It was of no use since the only thing supporting the trasmssion was the engine on the weak and flexible motor mounts. They acted as a nice shock absorber.

I then tried the hacksaw method and became frustrated.

Finally I found this thread and purchased a pipe cap the next day. Maybe a little heat would have been good since I got the pulller torque up before the mount went POP and started to move. No wonder hammering didn't work.

I froze the mount and it went back in with slight taps of the hammer.

I also "reinforced" the mount with short pieces of rubber tubing (got this idea elsewhere on the board.)

Auto part Muffler Cylinder

I was going to purchase the IAP reinforcing bushing, but figure as this would do basically the same thing.
Yellow Auto part Plastic Rim Wheel


I'm quite surprised that they put such large voids in this mount. It is domed to colapse like the foam in the seat bottoms (yes, that is why you are sitting in whole.
Food

Also resolved with a little filler.

Food Cuisine Dish Ingredient Comfort food


I am buying a new seat bottom foam for this seat and will install the same filler foam to keep it from deforming.
 
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