Suspect previous Spider frame damage

roland · #1 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 09:48 AM

As some of you know I am trying to find the right solution to the restoration of my accident damaged duetto. Repair body or find new body ? it all rests on how bad the damage is (gotten different feedback).

I need your help understanding if my spider has been damaged before. As I suspect from little clues here I think it has been hit before. Recently I noticed looking at Brian's newly painted white Spider body (see pic) that his right inner fender has structural stampings that mine does not have. I notice that my left one has them.... i assume that this fender is a repair job.

Can someone validate the fact that no Spider ever came with smooth sheet metal inner fenders ?

roland · #2 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 09:49 AM

Here is my inner fender...

**ossodiseppia** · #3 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 10:07 AM

Gosh Roland, I missed that one when I looked at your pictures before. I would take out a piece of sand paper and sand thru the paint to see is there is any body filler. You may want to look at that sheet metal from inside the wheel well to see if the stampings show there.

roland · #4 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 10:29 AM

From this angle the fire wall seems to have slightly bent in.....

roland · #5 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 10:35 AM

Ossodisepia... here is a new shot following your comment of a few days ago.... Can't tell what is factory welding or repair work... maybe comparing it to your car would be more obvious (if you have a minute to look

)
I suspect this might have moved a little during the acident (hum hit harder than I thought).

**ossodiseppia** · #6 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 10:44 AM

I've pointed out the spot welds. One of the spot welds appears to be torn or pulled apart. The weld itself didn't fail, but the metal around the spot weld did. Look at the edges of the hole. Are they shiny? If the are, then it is fresh.

roland · #7 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 10:53 AM

You know, I think the round whole torn in the tunner could be the gear shift lever end - probably while taking the trans out (last PO had the 1750 pulled out and a 2000 put in) the gear shift lever did not clear the tunnel and while gaving the engine puller a huge tug it tore through the metal - the only explanantion I can think of but it mean they really rammed it in there (wonder what the effect to the gearbox would be because of it ?)

**Kipp** · #8 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 12:02 PM

Roland
Has your frame guy looked over the damage, put a set of tram guages on it or taken any mesurments yet?
Pretty much anything is repairable, it just takes money. Some of us just throw money at these things tell they get done.
It does not sound very smart I know, but I just keep doing it over and over.
I think I need some of those Alfa Virus Meds. posted on that other thred.

roland · #9 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 12:22 PM

kipp, no actually no one has seen it first hand as it is in the country side in a barn... Most body guys I have been recommended are quit efar away... I have talked to them with pictures in hand.... Most of them say that it is not a problem to repair.. but most alfistis I talk to tell me that I should be carefull, that I should better find a empty body shell (and boy I have been looking but they are just impossible to find and are very expensive)....
So I am tempted to go the repair way - just trying to get a grasp on th price so it does not get out of hand.....

Quick expert question: I have stumbled on a 1966 1600 body quite far from me - I am expecting pics next week. it is a european model. Are there major - minor differences between that body and a 1969 1750 US spec ? Is it simply a few attachments (dual servo) here and there or is it more ?

**ossodiseppia** · #10 (**permalink**) 10-30-2003, 12:30 PM

Actually, the fronts of the car are a little different. The upper and lower nose panels are the same as well as the fenders (with the exception of the side maker light location). The radiator support and inner fenders are different.

67GTV · #11 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 02:41 AM

Hey Roland,

There's a guy in Atlanta, Georgia, U.S.A. that's selling a bunch of new Duetto front end pieces on eBay. I'm not sure if this would help you or if it would be worth it to have these parts shipped from the U.S. I just thought of your Spider when I saw this auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2443358025

**ossodiseppia** · #12 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 08:25 AM

I saw this pile of stuff anf thought of Roland too. I think it would be best to have the car looked at by and experienced frame shop. He needs to determine if the car is truly fixable. With the amount of damage we are seeing and the previous repairs that he's pointing out, it may be that it is too expensive to repair or that the car cannot be repaired to it's former glory. That would be sad.

All of the stuff in that auction is readily available in Europe. I think the pirce of the stuff in the auction is pretty spot on. That's about what I would expect to pay if I bought from Alfa. Looks like the only aftermarket piece is the grille surround.

roland · #13 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 08:53 AM

67GTV and Osso,
Thanks a million for thinking of me !!!
I have not made much progress since I last posted on this topic. I have spotted a 1966 body in Germany but the person isn't responding very quickly to me with pictures... probably not his first priority.

Concerning the parts on Ebay.. As I am not a body expert I am not sure what exactly can be saved or not.... and I have not yet brought my duetto to the body shop (they do not have much space and cannot tackle the project yet) so no expert advice from that end yet.
You mention that the only aftermarket part seems to be the grille surround. Well Mine is not damaged and can probably be cut out.. Is the rest still made by Alfa ?? i thought all the parts were "aftermarket" parts and all sold by few distributors like "centerline" and others (in US) or OKParts, Hurtienne (in Germany), or Highwood (in UK) ?
The parts I have seen quoted by distributors seem really expensive and thus I am hunting for a salvagable parts car (for body panels) .....
Question: in the ebay parts the lower from nose panel .. is that a Kamtaill bottom nose panel (1971 +) ? is it identical to the duetto except the grill surround piece ?

**ossodiseppia** · #14 (**permalink**) 11-17-2003, 09:27 AM

Try to source the radiator support and other internal bits around the radiator from Alfa. Aftermarket panels should be just fine, seeing how that's all that's available. All of the black stuff in the auction appears to be genuine Alfa stuff. The Kammtail lower valance can be made to work for the Duetto with that silver "V" shaped piece. That's what I'm calling the grille surround.

Don't buy any parts until you have the car looked at. This guy that's selling the parts has been snapping up stuff on Ebay for quite a while. He may have bought these before he had his car looked at and has decided to go another route.

I bought all of my stuff before my car went to the body shop. I was committed to the restoration, regardless of what I found.