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In Tank Pump Filter Question / Problem

18K views 47 replies 11 participants last post by  Britjetpilot 
#1 ·
Anyone have any experience with the new flat ribbon in tank fuel pump filter that IAP is selling? I bought a new fuel sender, pump and filter. Put it all together. I had a bit of a struggle getting it back into the tank with the new fuel filter in place but folded the ends down and was able to able to get it into the tank. The problem now is that with the new fuel filter in place the the sender unit will not set down far enough into the tank. To make things worse, I now can't get the sender unit out of the tank because of the new filter. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Drew
 
#2 ·
Your signature suggests a 73 spider.....didn't know they even had an intank pump!

What do you mean by the sender will not "set down far enough"? does it hit the bottom and not allow you to screw it down?

Not 100% sure, but I believe the filter sock should somehow fit between a sort of baffle at the bottom of the tank? Maybe you just need to twist it around.
Make sure the float is pointing to the side not to front or back, or your guage will be bouncing all over the place when you stop and go.
 
#3 ·
Hi -

This is in my '79 spider. Sorry I didn't state that in my last post.

Yes there is a baffle in the bottom of the tank that the pump sits in. Kind of a little round cup with maybe a 1/2 inch side. The old screen filter, now swimming in the tank somewhere, used to sit nicely in the little cup. The new filter is a half inch wide and 6 inches long has a plastic strip in it that give it rigidity. The problem appears that the filter sits across top of the cup baffle and blocks the fuel sender unit from going all the way into the tank so that it can be screwed in.

The other problem is that I can't pull the fuel sender unit out of the tank with the filter in place. The little strip of plastic gets is bigger that the opening on the top of the tank and won't flex enough to fold down so that it will come out. The only option seems to be to disconnect it as it comes out and leave it in the tank! Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thank,

Drew
 
#4 ·
I would just pull it out! You folded the ends down to get it in, so it must flex a little to get it out. As you say, it might pop off.....if it pops off then I guess you could fish it out through the hole with a stiff long wire with a hook on the end and a little maglight torch to see in there!...if possible try to see if the old sock filter is still in there and fish that out too, maybe you can reuse it!

How close is the whole thing to screwing it in, when it does touch the bottom? If it is just a few mm I would tighten it up and be done. If it is an inch then OK there is a problem.
 
#5 ·
You got me thinking. I could tie a string to the filter and secure it to something in the trunk. Then let it be pulled off as I remove the sender unit. I have been trying to use the bracket to hold the pump in place. IAP says not to use the old bracket when replacing the pump. Just use hose clamps on both ends of the step hose. Not sure why, the new pump (from Centerline, IAP doesn't have them. AC Delco quit making them) looks the same. The sender is different though.

Thanks,

Drew
 
#7 ·
I just installed one of the in tank filter socks in my 1986 Spider that you are talking about and had all the same problems. I received nothing with my order from IAP informing me of correct orientation or tips to install this obviously different product. Installation was made even more difficult due to the fact that my old filter sock was also "swimming " somewhere in my tank. I had previously marked my sender and tank by scribbing it and then marking the two scribe marks with a felt pen. Use a scribe to mark orientation because the felt pen mark may wash off and be difficult to see once gas is on it. This will ensure you have the correct float sender orientation when re-installed.
Look into the tank with a light and you will see a recessed slot in the bottom of the tank, Press the new sock on securely and checking your float alignment marks, rotate the new sock on the fuel pump unit so that both the sock alignment coincides with your marks and sender float aligns with the slot in the lower part of the tank. Bend the sock to fit the opening lower it into tank and wiggle it around until it settles into the depression and the sender top settles onto the top of the tank and the gasket. If no joy have a beer and carefully repeat.
Don
 
#9 ·
Hi Drew,
I don't know what you mean by "old bracket" If you perhaps ment old gasket "the rubber one" yes I did reuse it.
Also, The filter sock design was altered, I am told, because the old design sometimes became bent or folded over during installation causing a diminished fuel supply problem. Sometimes the cure is worse than the cause.
Don
 
#12 ·
Thanks Series4 -

That is exactly what I am taking about. I replaced my pump this time. To make a long story short I have a rebuilt Spica pump coming from Wes so I'm replacing the in tank pump and the main fuel pump as well as the filters beforehand. I will have to carefully compare my old pump to my new pump. I'll bet that there is a bit of a difference that will account for the problem that I am having. My gut is now telling me to get the fuel sender out of the tank and rebuild it without the bracket like IAP is saying in their FAQ. Either that or I'm need to figure a way to get the bracket to mount higher up on the fuel sender unit. Unfortunately I won't be able to work on it until the weekend. I'll let you know when come up with a solution. if anyone has any other ideas please chime in.

Thanks again all,

Drew
 
#13 ·
I believe you can re-install the unit complete if you have both the sender float orientation and the new sock position correct. Removal afterwards for any reason may possibly result in the infamous "swimming filter sock".
Let us know how it went any photos would help the next persons efforts.
Don
 
#14 · (Edited)
Here's a reference photo for the size difference between my fuel strainer and tank inlet.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

BTW this is the $40 airtex (amazon) pump (E8778) and $5 airtex fs-1 filter. Both aftermarket replacements. The filter pressed on tightly and fit into the tank perfectly at an angle with the longer side in first.
 
#17 ·
Thanks again. I do want to add that my intention is not to diss IAP or Centerline or Vick's or any of the suppliers that make it possible to keep the Alfa Romeo breed alive. They do a great job. They just can't test everything they sell. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't doing something wrong here. Just because I can buy the parts and the tools it don't give me the skills and experience of a master mechanic.

Drew
 
#18 ·
Hey Slapbass,
Nice photo and very different from the stock units I have seen. Be sure and let the Forum know how this all works out for you including the Airtex fuel pump.
BTW, dimensions on that new style in tank fuel filter sock are 4 1/2 X 1 5/8 in.
But they do bend, curl and twist. also they come in blue or white if anyone cares.
Don
 
#19 ·
Yeah, the filter sock I used a few years ago (IAP) was quite different. It is orientated so that the smallest dimension is vertical. It fit inside the baffle in the bottom of the tank, so you need to tinker with the position of the filter to get it aligned properly.
 
#20 ·
In Tank Fuel Pump Assembly

Looking for some help with this and also have a suggestion.
This first photo shows the assembly from a 79 Spider and the fuel gauge sending unit from IAP. The roll of brass screen is from McMaster Carr.
I need to put together a couple of these assemblies. Here is the problem.
1. The hose sent with the Airtex pump will not stretch to attach to the intake gauge assembly, a step reducer is required. The step reducer is shown on the 79 unit. I heard these were Unobtanium but need to ask the question, Anyone know where to get these? I need two.
2. The bracket on the 79 assembly will not work on the IAP assembly. There is no room to install the clamp to hold it in place.


Pink Performance Event Performance art Muscle

This picture shows a unit I took out of a 1980 spica S2 on the left and the 79 on the right. The pump is attached to the assembly with regular fuel line that was stretched. Not sure how long this has been in the tank but the line is deteriorating. I know the fuel line is not designed to be immersed in fuel.

Also, on the two assemblies above, both of the pumps have some sort of a resistor in the wire that runs to the + lead. Anyone know what this is an if it is necessary on the replacement units?

This photo shows the new sump screen that I formed from the brass mesh. I formed it over a socket; it works pretty well. The mesh specification is 100 WS from the McMaster Carr. I thought about the slip on sock filter; see first photo. I decided to use the brass as the sock really doesn't fit well with the internal sump and I didn't want it floating around if it pops loose.

I have some of the brass screen left, had to by a sq foot of it and you only need a piece 3" x 3" to make the sump screen.
If someone needs a piece, let me know.

I really do need to find a source for the stepped hose so I can make up two more assemblies. Anyone have suggestions on replacements for the stepped hose?
 
#21 · (Edited)
I think that I may have a solution but wanted your opinions before I went ahead and actually did it. It appears that the fuel tank has a depth of 9 in. The fuel sender assembly is about is about 9 in. high. The little cup baffle appears to be a little less than a 1/2 in. high. So when the strainer rests on the cup baffle in the bottom of the tank the sender sits a little less than 3/8 in. too high. The new Airtec pump is exactly the same size as the old AC Delco pump BTW and the sender unit sits perfectly without the strainer attached.

The step hose is snugged up tight to the float unit on the fuel sender and the pump is snugged up as tight as the step hose will allow. I'm also not using the bracket and am using plastic wire ties as clamps as IAP suggests in the tech bulletin. So the only thing that I can think of is to shorten the unobtainium step hose by about 3/8 in off the top. I know that I can cobble a new one out of 1/2 in. and 3/8 in fuel hose if I screw this up but it will kill me to ruin a good step hose if I do. Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks,

Drew
 
#23 ·
you can get the stepped hose in Germany from OKP alfa.......costs about 25 bucks though, plus postage!

I have often read here that you can slip a 3/8inch hose into a 1/2 inch hose.........but nobody then says where you get the 1/2 inch "submersible" hose......you need submersible fuel hose or it will just melt away in the gas tank! Gates only do 3/8ths inch and 5/16ths submersible fuel hose, so that won't work.
 
#24 ·
Gas Tank Photos

First photo top of tank, then internal sump for above.
The 3rd photo is a close up of the internal sump and the 4th is the modification to the outlet line to install an internal pump in the tank.
Gotta love those LED trouble lights.

For my installation, the rubber grommet around the bottom of the Airtex pump will set on top of the top of the sump with the screen sticking below and into the sump.
 

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#27 ·
In Tank Step Hose

I just placed an order with OKP for the step hose. I'll post the shipping after they notify me. The way their program works, they figure the shipping and then send an email with total amount and then you pay via paypal.

The time it takes to remove the pump assembly from the tank makes up for the cost. I really don't want to have to replace a fuel line inside the tank several years from now.
 
#32 ·
Good lord. So, I responded above. Commute in the spider today because the daily is down for repair. Running rough...debated parking it...said to self, hmmm...tank's a little under half full. Stooped and filled it, right, runs fine... Please let it just be the filter sock came off and is blocking the pump intake.
 
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