I've made it so far... and now I can't seem to get the front and rear sections apart. It appears to be stopped where the shifter connects inside. I've tried putting in in neutral and several different gears. Help?
Note the shifter gets pushed back internally as the housing is moved back.
It's been quite a few years since I had a tranny open, but if I recall correctly, you need to loosen one or both of the pivots on the two sides of the tower, in which the cross of the shifter pivots, until you can get the shifter out of the way of the shift rods. Careful however as there are shims and you don't want to lose track of what goes where.
Hope I'm not too far off base here.
/Neil
Spiderserie4- I've been following it, it's excellent. Thanks.
eedneco- Thanks, that did the trick. That's just about the only little tidbit not covered in the "dummies" thread above.
just looked at my workshop manual, and it says "engage 3rd gear and slide off the rear cover"........
EDIT: ok just seen you managed to do it......great! (Manual strangely doesn't mention eedneco's tip!.........when he says "pivots", does he mean the breathers either side?.........just for my future reference, case I have to tackle this one day!)
I also followed jon's thread and got stuck at the exact same spot!
papajam saved me of course!
That shifter stub has to come out. As mentioned, remove the two side breathers and then that stub and circle piece around the shift tower pulls straight out.
When I was stuck, I also found that by putting the transmission in 3rd gear, you could pull, and I mean pull that end off, but it wasnt fun and it didnt seem right.
When you do that, you will see that the transmission forks, of course, are in 3rd gear. For me, it was impossible and frustrating trying to get the end cap back on this way.
So, here are a few pictures and whatch outs, to make the process much easier. I will also go back to jon's thread and add for future views by other bb's.
I see that you have already removed the shifter washer, thick oring and the 2 sliding circle things.
Remove bottom ring by pulling it up. It is keyed, so you will be able to put it back in the same place.
Take note of the wahser on the sides of the shifter stub. Driver side has a thick washer and passenger has a thin washer and a wave washer. They have to be re installed the same way.
Remove the side breathers, 10mm nuts. Each breather also has shims, most likely a different amount on each side. Mine had 2 on one side and 3 on the other. Alfa used this shims to center the shifter. They have to be re installed the same way.
Thanks again guys. I just read several other posts for the last 3 hours, and I have a few important questions before I buy things.
1. If my 2nd gear teeth are DESTROYED as shown in the pic, is there any GOOD alternative to buying a new $235 2nd gear? I don't really understand "dog gears," but is it possible to just replace that part of the gear?
2. To successfully complete 60sRacer's "First Gear Fix," all I need to purchase (I have no spare tx parts) is a non-1st gear style key and an additional arc piece, right?
3. How precise is the gear balancing? I have access to a CNC machine and skilled operator, he can probably lighten some things for me. Would it be a problem if a gear was a few grams off-balance, or would that not even effect anything?
I'm not about to hurry blindly in to this, I'd rather spend the time and money to know it's going to work right.
Thanks again guys. I just read several other posts for the last 3 hours, and I have a few important questions before I buy things.
1. If my 2nd gear teeth are DESTROYED as shown in the pic, is there any GOOD alternative to buying a new $235 2nd gear? I don't really understand "dog gears," but is it possible to just replace that part of the gear?
2. To successfully complete 60sRacer's "First Gear Fix," all I need to purchase (I have no spare tx parts) is a non-1st gear style key and an additional arc piece, right?
3. How precise is the gear balancing? I have access to a CNC machine and skilled operator, he can probably lighten some things for me. Would it be a problem if a gear was a few grams off-balance, or would that not even effect anything?
1: You don't need a new gear (the part with the teeth at an angle) but a new dog gear. That little thin gear comes off (in a press) and can be replaced or swapped with a dog gear that get much less use and abuse. For example, you can take the dog gear from 5th and move it to 2nd. The 1st to 2nd gear shift is more extreme speed and weight wise AND it is done nearly 100% of the time when driving. 4th to 5th is an easier shift, less gear speed and weight (smaller gears) and doesn't happen nearly as often when driving, so you could live with a bashed up dog gear there, if you get my drift.
You can also flip the syncro ring as they also wear down and really get used on one side.
2: Don't know, have yet to do it.
3: i doubt the gears are actually balanced but that is my assumption. If you machinist uses a CNC machine you will be fine drilling or machining weight out of the assembly.
Hi,yes you can separate the doggear from the gear itself, in the first photo you can see it separated from second gear, the second photo shows my simple homemade press and a 5th gear from the donorbox donating its doggear to my second gear
A donor gearbox won't cost much, especially if it crunches in 2nd and 3rd, the synchro's from 4th and 5th will most of the time be good enough to use on 2nd and 3rd.
There's no need to take the synchro itself apart if you have a press, just swap the whole assy
greetz, Frans
ps:
if you take the gears from the axle, please be aware that there's a welded edge somewhere in the middle so you'll have to take the gears off of the other end,see last photo.
Thanks- It looks like I did understand the "dog gear" thing, but why doesn't anyone sell those new? I would swap the 2nd/5th if it weren't SO bad, but I'm missing about 15 teeth in a row. In my above pic if you look closely there's only 2 teeth not sheared off in that whole area.
If the gear balance isn't critical, are most people just drilling holes in the gears as I've seen, not "precision machining" them? If so, what kind of bit is needed in the drill press to go through that stuff?
If the gear balance isn't critical, are most people just drilling holes in the gears as I've seen, not "precision machining" them? If so, what kind of bit is needed in the drill press to go through that stuff?
You don't just need to replace the doggear but also the sleeve, would be nice to have a 'match',personally I wouldn't go through the trouble of drilling the gears unless you plan on racing the car, I understand that the material is very very hard and will cost a lot of drills to get it done.
I just replaced the worn out parts and she's shifting like new.
Try to get yourself a donor gearbox, shouldn't cost you more then 100 bucks,don't be tempted then to swap gears as well, these parts do run in on eachother, different gears will get you a noisy tranny.
Fransinge- I ordered a dog gear from APE about an hour before your post. I understand the "matching," but the sleeve looks pretty good to me and the dog gear going in is used, not new. As for the drilling, there are benefits to being in Naval Aviation. Lots of tools and materials made for mil-spec aircraft work. I may have an unfair advantage...
First off, a huge thumbs-up to APE. Note the date and time on my last post... the dog gear arrived (in like-new condition) at my door 6 hours ago. Granted we're only a few hundred miles from each other, but still- about 24 hours- that's impressive!
Ok, so I talked to my machinist buddy, and we can in fact bore holes in titanium if need be. I will be lightening the gears. Time for me to get back on my primary thread as the Allegra project continues (titled "Allegra- Your time has come" for those who haven't seen it).
You can machine Ti-6Al-4V (common titanium alloy) and even elemental titanium with conventional high speed steel cutting tools. Titanium cuts like austenitic steels, so use sharp, short drills and cutting fluid or paste such as Boelube. I'm really surprised if the gears are made of titanium because of cost!
No, no... they're not titanium, my buddy was just saying they have that capability.
So this is where I'm at right now. Can someone tell me how to get the gears and shaft out from the housing, or how I am otherwise supposed to do it? I've skimmed a handful of threads and can't seem to find that info.
You are going to have to take off the reverse shifter fork. Use red locktite when putting it back together and make sure it is in the correct position otherwise is will pop out of reverse under load. Also see that metal ring hanging on the left of the shaft? Don't forget to put it back in, you wouldn't be the first. so far so good!
Does the reverse shift fork just slide out to the right after I remove the bolt going through it? At the moment I do not have my shop manual available. I may be able to look it up soon...
Yes, just slide rod out after lifting the lock tab and removing the bolt. I'm assuming you have removed the three plungers, springs, and ball bearings on the top of the box? Once it's out the fork will lift away and the main shaft will lift out. Make sure when going back together you place the reverse fork in position and then slide the rod in. Hey, I've done it, more than once
Note the position of the front seal when you remove it. It's kinda counter intuitive the way it is installed, it goes in from the back so the flat face goes in the bell housing first, you install it from the inside of the bell housing on the thin edges of the seal.
Ok, so the shop book I have is pretty much useless for trans disassembly. How does this come off? My book is not very discriptive, sometimes just stating the word "remove" for things secured in multiple areas.
from the manual in this thread the hubs look as though they have to be pressed off (and heated to put them back on again)
Never done a gearbox myself so hopefully someone might chime in who actually has!
all that will press off rather easily with a decent press. JC is correct, after everything is apart you will need some really big *** snap ring pliers to get that big flat snap ring off and it's almost impossible with one person because the snap ring will warp and you will need another hand to keep it flat as you use both hands on the snapring pliers. There are also shims between a couple of gears so keep track of those. Now this may be cheating but when going back together if you flip the flat snap ring over the warp that was induced during disassembly can work to your advantage and will bend down onto the gear assembly and be easier to fit into it's groove if you are trying to do this alone. Surly you have a breakdown of the mainshaft? It's a must. Google works better for finding stuff on the bb than the search function. If you can't find or don't have one I can scan and post one. I had to grind the outside of a socket down to get the nut off the end of the mainshaft because it's a tight fit for such a big nut.
A good three-legged puller with extensions will get all the stuff off, I pressed the hubs on with little force from my home-made press without heat, no problems at all.
grtz,
Franzzz
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