Engine conversion question - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 02-15-2012, 07:28 AM
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Engine conversion question

I am looking into putting the engine from an 87 Bosh spider into my 77. Is this a feasible conversion? If so how much swearing would I be looking at?
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:55 AM
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It has been done, its quite involving you need the full engine electrical wiring, ECU air intake ducting and fuel system. It's been done before so someone might mention what more.
I'll say if your engine is in good condition it easier to have for instance the Spica overhauled and engine tuned up. If your engine is run down it may be an idea. If it OK and you feel you like some more power, it still probably better to tweak your engine.
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:55 AM
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Although the 87 engine is a direct bolt-in to the 77, two major issues come to mind; the fuel system and is the 87 crank drilled for a pilot bushing.
Which fuel system are you going to use, stock Spica, stock Bosch or carb conversion?
There are some minor issues as well such as ignition system, tach drive, etc. Nothing that can't be overcome mind you but a plan needs to be created.
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:56 AM
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Feasible but not completely 'bolt in'. The '87 engine uses Bosch FI, the '77 either SPICA FI or carbs. Most of the parts will bolt on but not all the detail differences will. For example the heads are slightly different in the intake ports for the injectors.

IAP has a page showing the differences in the heads.



Are you planning to use the computers from the '87 to use the Bosch FI? You would then need to use the Bosch FI wire harness and fabricate some brackets to mount the computers (there are two).
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Last edited by ghnl; 02-15-2012 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Eric again types slower but has a PICTURE !!
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:58 AM
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The issue is my 77 engine head is frozen on the block and WILL NOT come off. Not with the factory tool, rope trick, engine hoist...nothing can get it more that 1/6" up after a month of trying. A local guy is selling the 87 engine with all wires and computers for $550. At this point it seems to be the easier road to just pop a new engine in. I was looking for one before 81 but this is what I found.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:01 AM
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The 87 is complete Bosh FI comps wiring all of it. and I can make brackets to set the computers on the deck behind the seats.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papajam View Post
Although the 87 engine is a direct bolt-in to the 77, two major issues come to mind; the fuel system and is the 87 crank drilled for a pilot bushing.
.
.........................

Huh ?
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:27 AM
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Oops. The jury will please disregard the witness's last statement.
Spider to Spider. The crank already has a pilot bushing.

Thanks, Pete.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:30 AM
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Anyone have a wiring diagram for the 87. I'm trying to figure what I will need to add electrically to power the CPUs
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:43 AM
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I think others have said it ...You need to put in the entire 87 wire harness into the 77 , you just can not add some wires to the 77 and make it run !
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tommycox68 View Post
Anyone have a wiring diagram for the 87.
Sure do. Please send me a private message with your email address and I'll send them to you.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ARwrench View Post
I think others have said it ...You need to put in the entire 87 wire harness into the 77 , you just can not add some wires to the 77 and make it run !
Right the guy is selling it with the complete wiring I'm trying to see how complicated installing that will be.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:29 AM
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If your engine runs, as I understand, 1982/'83 Bosch FI engines (which is what I own) are essentially the same as the SPICA engines other than the electronic FI. They don't have the variable valve of later engines. So wouldn't be a little easier just finding the early '82/'83 Bosch injection parts and installing it on the old engine?
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:01 AM
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If your engine runs, as I understand, 1982/'83 Bosch FI engines (which is what I own) are essentially the same as the SPICA engines other than the electronic FI. They don't have the variable valve of later engines. So wouldn't be a little easier just finding the early '82/'83 Bosch injection parts and installing it on the old engine?
The head gasket is bad and the head is frozen to the head bolts on my original engine. That is why I'm thinking swapping out engines will be a solution as it has been over a month of trying to get the head off. Does the SPICA fit on the 87 head? I assume it is different so my only option would be to put all the electronics and such in with the engine.
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:39 AM
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a stuck head is one problem, fitting an engine that needs quite a few changes is another.

If you have to swop the engine because you have given up on removing the head, then I suggest you go for one that drops in with no changes necessary.....might take a while to find, but think of the effort you will save yourself!

Personally if I thought I had to get an exchange engine, then that stuck head would come off, even if I had to destroy the darned thing!

Didn't Paul Spruell have a method of somehow boring around the studs (after all this is where it is sticking, as you have raised it a 1/16th" it cant be head to block corrosion)...something like that?..might be worth asking him, I cannot quite remember what he did, it is on here somewhere in the BB.....
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