Wheel Studs Long Enough? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 02-12-2010, 07:49 PM
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Wheel Studs Long Enough?

Hello everyone,

While my gril takes her yearly Winter nap, I am getting her ready for her new Rims and Tires.

My issue right now is around the length of the wheel studs.

When the new wheels are mounted, I am getting 6 turns of the wheel nuts on the fronts and 8 turns on the rears.

Question 1.

Do I have enough turns of the nut to safely keep the wheels on? I am not racing the car. Vast majority of my driving is touring around town and some country roads but I do occasionaly hit the highways.

I have seen a few threads on replacing the current wheel studs with extended studs. Most have used ARP and fit our Spiders.

Picture 1 below shows the actual ARP bolt I am thinking of, part number 7712. The original bolt shown is from a GTV so I don't know its length.

The length of the ARP bolt from shoulder to tip is 72mm. Note the end which has no threads and I am guessing is 10mm in length.

Picture 2 below shows the Front Bolts length from shoulder to tip at 52mm and the Rear Bolt from shoulder to tip at 58mm. Threads to the tip of the bolt. No flat spot like the ARP.

Question 2.
If I need more threads to increase the amount of turns of the nut, will these extended studs give me enough considering the tip has no threads?

I'm calculating that I will get an additional 4mm of thread (14mm of bolt including the non threaded area) on the fronts and 10mm of additional thread (20 mm of bolt including the non threaded area) on the rears.

Question 3.
Am I looking at a lot of work? Most threads I have seen say for the Fronts to remove the caliper, rotate the disc, press the old bolt out and press the new one in.

For the rears, I have read to use the parking brake cable hole to remove and replace the bolts.

As always thanks for your help.

Vin

Picture 1
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Picture 2
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Old 02-13-2010, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintre View Post
Hello everyone,

Question 1.

Do I have enough turns of the nut to safely keep the wheels on? I am not racing the car. Vast majority of my driving is touring around town and some country roads but I do occasionaly hit the highways.
Well, I found the answer to Question 1.

From TireRack.com

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12X1.5 needs 6.5 turns, I have 6 on the front, 8 on the rears. Looks like I will be replacing the fronts at a minimum.

Strange though as the fronts are listed at 58mm and the rears are listed at 52mm. You would think the opposite.

Off I go!

Vin
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold

Honey, this is the last thing I have to do, then I'm finished. It'll just be a minute.

Last edited by Vintre; 02-13-2010 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:47 AM
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I did put a message about this subject on the BB and I would not use the new bolts you have shown as they do not have sufficient length of plain shank before the thread. As a result the disc or drum will be sitting on the threaded portion of the bolt rather than on a properly machined shank.
I noted before that there is no increase in strength in a nut after six threads and I suggested, as there are starter/incomplete threads, it would be wise to have, say, 8 threads. Any more does not increase the mechanical strength of the joint.
I did add that it looks very odd seeing the studs not coming up to the end of the wheel nuts and that the scutineers do not like this....nor do I for that matter, and I did ask if anyone could verify my comments.
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'56 Giulietta Spider, '57 Giulietta Spider Veloce, '57 Giulietta Lightweight Sprint Veloce, '60 SZ, '68 GTA, '76 2000 Spider
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Old 02-13-2010, 12:47 PM
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buy a set of H&R wheel studs. they come in just about any size, they're high quality and in the proper length for your specific vehicle
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by alfazagato View Post
I did put a message about this subject on the BB
Hello alfazagato,

I did run a search on the subject but only came up with the ARP replacements with no other complaints.

I would like to read your thread as I can tell, you have already lived through this decision.

I checked all the threads you have started but couldn't find it. Could you please post the thread here for us to read?

Also, what stud did you end up using?

Thanks for the help. It's what I love about this BB. Learning from others and passing it on.

Vin
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold

Honey, this is the last thing I have to do, then I'm finished. It'll just be a minute.
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Old 02-13-2010, 04:36 PM
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God, I wish I could remember when I wrote this magnum opus....I can't, but frankly after a good supper could you?
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'56 Giulietta Spider, '57 Giulietta Spider Veloce, '57 Giulietta Lightweight Sprint Veloce, '60 SZ, '68 GTA, '76 2000 Spider
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Old 02-13-2010, 06:26 PM
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I recommend you talk to Charlie at Serpent Autosports -he's an Alfa guy and he helped me get the correct studs and lugs to put Daytonas on my 71 Spider (studs are short on a 71, and have "Mopar style" left hand threads on the driver's side of the car). I had them 2 days after I placed the order. Good guy.

He's on the supplier list, but here's a direct link.

Hub Adapters and Spacers
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Last edited by Lokki; 02-14-2010 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:05 PM
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In The End

Well,

In the end, I changed out the Front Studs as I only had 6 turns of the nut. I ended used the ARP 7711. 72mm of underhead length, 62mm of thread.

The closed head nuts I have are 30mm long, and I ended up going through the top of one when torquing it down. As the new stud has 10mm of non threaded length for "quick start nose", I took a grinder to them and cut them back as close to the start of the threads as I could get. Cost was very reasonable at $14.95 for a pack of 4.

ARP 7711
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If I had to do it again, I would install ARP 7708 which has 63mm of thread without the quick start nose. $12.95 for a pack of 5.

ARP 7708
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I left the rears alone has I have 8 turns which is enough and pulling those studs and replacing with longer ones involved pulling the axles which I do not want to do without having a really, really, really good reason for.

In the end, I'm happy with the studs, new wheels will now be safely secured, and I can't wait for Spring!

Thanks to everyone for their help.

Vin
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold

Honey, this is the last thing I have to do, then I'm finished. It'll just be a minute.

Last edited by Vintre; 02-27-2010 at 08:15 PM. Reason: corrected Qty to 5 on ARP 7708
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Old 03-27-2010, 04:59 PM
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Juice was worth the squeeze

The fruits of my labour.

Rims are riding on Yokohama S-Drive 205 55 R15's.

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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold

Honey, this is the last thing I have to do, then I'm finished. It'll just be a minute.
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:57 AM
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Thumbs up

Nice, nice, nice~!
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:49 AM
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Reviving an old thread.... I recently had a problem with the replacement studs shown in this thread.... the long ones with the 'teeth' which are supposed to press fit them in place.

I had all four come loose on my RF wheel... tried having them spot-welded in place but they broke loose again immediately. I purchased the actual replacement studs which have a "D" shaped head to prevent them from rotating, and I strongly recommend you to do the same.

FWIW.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:21 PM
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Lokki,

Sorry to hear that. Knock on wood, I haven't had that problem.

Did you originally replace both sides or just the passenger, the ones that came loose?

Any problems with the other side if you did both?

Vin
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold

Honey, this is the last thing I have to do, then I'm finished. It'll just be a minute.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:54 PM
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Vintre -

I had replaced the original studs on all four wheels; my car is a 71 which means that it not only had reverse-thread studs on the left side, but that they were too short for the Campy Daytona wheels which I wanted to put on the car.

Thus the replacement of all studs with the longer splined ones I received from Serpent Autosports. The problem first appeared on the left rear - only one stud came loose when I removed that wheel and thus the problem appeared not long after I installed the studs. However, since it was one stud on one wheel, and on the rear, I simply had that loose stud spot welded and carried on.

The reason for this post is that when I recently replaced my tires, Discount Tire told me that all four studs on the right front wheel were loose as well as one stud on the left rear. The left front and right rear seemed OK. (You'll recall that the front studs mount into the brake disc). I nursed the car home from Discount Tire(a mile or two) but the RF wheel was already wobbling. Scary stuff and tightening things down again did nothing. I therefore pulled both front discs and took them to a muffler shop and had the studs spot welded into the discs. However, this only lasted a mile or two before ALL the studs on the RF broke the welds again and the wheel started to wobble again. I decided that discretion is the better part of valor and choose to replace both the studs and the discs at the same time (anybody in the Dallas area need a set of almost new front discs and who already has the correct "D-head" front studs? I'll give them to you).

Since Vick Auto is within driving distance and I didn't want to pay for shipping front discs, I called them and picked up two new front discs complete with mounted studs, and then replaced both sides. Front problem completely solved. Still have one loose stud on the left rear. However that wheel is staying tight so far and thus not an immediate concern.

I am ordering the proper rear studs (which have hex heads apparently) from Classic Alfa in England. IAP also has them but want more then $9 per stud, plus shipping which brings the total with tax to around $100 for 8 rear studs. Classic has them for about $4.50 per stud and there's no sales tax. This leaves plenty of room to pay shipping from England to the US and still come out ahead. It also leaves some unhappiness about IAP's pricing but that's another story.

Since all four studs broke loose on the RF even after spot welding them and spot welding has also failed on the one stud LR I really don't think that these splined studs can be recommended. I don't believe that they will automatically become a problem, but they must definitely be treated delicately every time you remove and replace a wheel. If one does come loose, you can figure that it's going to stay that way and that others may follow suit.

Since people may research replacing their studs in the future, I thought I should mention my problem here so that 'future alfisti' can avoid it by buying the correct studs from the beginning.
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Last edited by Lokki; 12-05-2012 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:51 AM
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Lokki,

Thanks for the post. As I said, I haven't had that problem, but good to know and I will be checking mine.

Were the replacements you picked up longer than the originals?

I agree that if you can get the "D" design studs in the longer length, its a better way to go.

Vin
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1991 Spider Veloce - Red on Tan - Rosa Bionda
1987 Spider Quadrifoglio - Red on Grey - Rosa - Sold

Honey, this is the last thing I have to do, then I'm finished. It'll just be a minute.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:06 AM
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Vintre -

My original studs on the 71 were shorter than the studs on later years and therefore the replacement studs are longer than that but probably regulation length for 72-on years. I suspect that yours are even longer than those to accomodate those handsome wheels.

The more I think about this, the more I suspect that the problem is caused by over torqueing the studs (probably with an air-wrench at Discount Tire). I don't think there is any stress caused by normal driving. So, as long as you exercise care in removing and reinstalling them I think they're probably OK. Certainly, I put 1,000 miles on them and didn't have a problem till I replaced the tires.

Still, after having all four come loose on one wheel, I thought I'd be remiss if I didn't say something.
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