Restoration Candidate?

[Denny]

New here, hi everybody!

I'm a "little british car" guy - Triumph Spitfires specifically. I'd been greenlighted by by dear wife to buy a project car for a restoration.

HOWEVER...

My dear wife ALSO just came across a 1985 Alfa Romeo Spider for sale a mile down the road. They're asking $2,200 and the for sale sign claims it's a "GT," also says, "YOU FIX!" I just feel they're grossly overpricing the car for it's condition, but like I said, I'm a LBC guy, so I have no particular expertise in italian sports cars. I need help!

It's currently located in Florida, but has Alabama tags. So I assume it's a "southern car." However, it has a surprising amount of rust (I read that they were galvanized at the factory to prevent rusting) as shown in some of the attached photos. The trunk lid looks like a total loss with extensive rust along the back edge. There's rust bubbling up under the paint in other spots as well - the panel between the windshield and the hood is badly corroded at both the left and right ends (probably also a replacement), also a rust bubble at the nose just above the front bumper (possibly fixable). Appears to have been repainted - overspray spot on right mirror mount - but they seem to have stayed with the original red color.

Obvious missing/broken parts includes both outside rear view mirrors, windshield wiper arms missing (mount studs rusty), the rear spoiler (trunk piece and left end), some side trim, right bumper side light, passenger door panel, handle & window crank, the rear license light housing, headlight trim rings and seat upholstery (covered with cheap "sheepskin" seat covers). Right rear tire has split sidewall, other 3 seem in good condition - didn't note the make. The chrome straps just forward of the trunk lid are also corroded and will need to be re-chromed or replaced.

Positives seem to be: body solid and straight other than noted rust, alloy hubs in good condition, all glass is good, top cloth looks very good - plastic rear window is very hazy (I know of treatments that can clear that) but complete and unsplit, dash and dash top look good - just sunfaded, wood steering wheel appears unsplit - just faded (possibly stripped of finish). The suspension appears to be in good shape, just normal surface rust, rubber seems to be in solid shape.

I have yet to contact the owner (will call tonight) so I haven't been able to see under the hood or determine if the car runs at all. I'm not scared off by it being a project (my wife might be), but I have no idea what part availability, etc, is. What other particulars should I be looking for?

[Andrew]

Price is way high for the condition. And that's without even knowing the mechanical condition.
Yes, anything is restorable, but is it economically viable to do so? This price will get you a shabby decent-running Bosch Spider with minor issues in the Bay Area, and I imagine in Florida too, where there are a fair number of them.
Andrew

[Bill]

"Run away, Run away !!!!"...
Seriously, there are much better cars to be found for the same or less money. To me the purpose of these cars is to DRIVE them, and you wont be doing much driving with that one for awhile.
Keep looking, you will find that 'right one'

[Andrew]

Just cosmetically, it appears to be a borderline parts car. Finding out about the mechanicals will be the biggee. If you want to learn about/work your way through a car, fine. But it's cheaper to buy a better car. Florida should have plenty of better candidates, unless you are particularly smitten with the Alabama plates.
I bought a much nicer 85 Graduate than this for $160 and had it running great within a couple days.
Andrew

[Denny]

As I said, I was previously green-lighted by my dear wife to take on the restoration of a british roadster. I intended a full, frame-off restoration (strip to bare metal, totally rebuild the engine, etc). So the size of the project doesn't scare me. I'm an aircraft mechanic so I feel confident I can do just about all the work myself.

I am concerned about the price of replacement parts - particularly the trunk lid. I searched a bit and found new replacements priced at nearly $600. That seems a bit expensive compared to what I'm used to with brit cars. The rest of the bodywork I believe I could repair if I needed to.

I'm not really asking if it's worth $2,200. I know it's not worth anywhere near that. Rather, what's it realistically worth in it's current condition? $500? Less? If it actually runs?

[SpiderHolly]

I would not get near that spider. I too have had many years experience with Triumphs (mostly tr6s and Stags).

My alfa is a great car but they are quite different from LBCs mostly due to the unibody construction so rust is a big expensive undertaking. Rust on a spitfire can usually be replaced pretty easily; not so with the spider.

Otherwise parts availability is pretty good and the cars are fun and fairly economical once they are road worthy. My 88 Quad need basically nothing but the value is nowhere near what my 73 TR6 is worth these days although it is really a nicer more functional car especially for daily driving.

I think you can find a mid 80s spider in running condition with fairly nice body and interior for less than $4500 but that rusty specimen will easily out cost you that amount to get into somewhat usable shape.

[garwood1]

Hey Denny...welcome to the BB.
You are not alone, I think there are several of us here who either migrated from LBC's to Alfas, or have some of each.
As to this car - looks like a mess to me - shows every sign of neglect, so have to assume mechanics are equally a mess - probably skimped on maintenance. I think I'd be inclined to walk away from this one. Conventional wisdom here seems to say never buy the first Spider you come across, as you have no basis for comparison. It also says 'buy the best you can afford', even if you intend a restoration. Lots of hidden problems can mount up, once you start buying parts.
Speaking of which, I find that parts availability for Spiders is on par with that of, say, MG's (with the exception of complete new body shells)...and cost of parts from specialists is also on par with the offerings of Moss. Lots of used bits out there too, so you don't always have to go with new.
This is a great BB, lots of expertise about, so feel free to dip in whenever you have questions - and good luck finding your next project !

[Andrew]

See above that I paid $160 for a better car, though I got pretty lucky. I'd see if it runs, do a compression test, see if the brakes and clutch have any hydraulic feel at all. Also look carefully at the floors, sills, and trunk floor for rust; common to rust badly behind and below the seats and in the footwells. Also below the radiator in the long nose.

I'd say $500 at most if it runs. If not, it's parts car prices, like $250. Appears to be a Veloce with mags, which have some value. $600 for a trunk lid is not a real-world price.

Andrew

[jarrington]

If you want an Alfa project car, start with a 1960s car, or a 71-74 GTV or Spider. As others have noted '80s Spiders in good shape are readily available at prices under $5k, so why put all that effort in for very little upside?

-Jason

[silverspider]

Keep looking...........................

[Denny]

Just spoke to the owner. Doesn't run, claims he was told the engine needs a new computer. All missing trim, etc. is in the trunk. He can't meet me, but said he'll go by later and unlock it so I can take a look under the hood, in the truck, interior, etc.

I'll look very closely at the rust locations Andrew pointed out, as well as checking out the "feel" of the hydraulics.

At this point it looks like this is just going to be an exercise in how to examine a Spider for me. I seriously doubt the seller will be willing to drop his price $2,200 to $250 or so. But you never know...

[Andrew]

I have never had a problem offering what I think is a fair price for condition. The seller may think your offer is unreasonable compared to his asking price, but I reverse that thinking, asserting that his asking price is unreasonable for the condition. It's just a business proposition, and he's free to say no. Good luck.

Replacement ECUs are not cheap. There is a good L-Jet Spider troubleshooting guide on the BB to work your way through the Bosch injection, but it's a big learning experience. I've used it on three cars and it's been invaluable. A fair number of L-Jet experts here too. I would not take the seller's assertion to the bank on the ECU; many causes of nonrunning condition that are much simpler than a new ECU.

Andrew

[Denny]

Oh, I have no problem with telling him (respectfully) that he's deluded about what the car is worth and making a realistic offer. I just stay ready to dodge the occasional punch in those circumstances...

[Geezer]

Denny,

I would run far away from that one unless you want to dismantle it for parts. With an unknown trans & engine, those may even be worth zero.

You can get a running/drivable Alfa for less than that.

[Denny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geezer Denny, I would run far away from that one unless you want to dismantle it for parts. With an unknown trans & engine, those may even be worth zero. You can get a running/drivable Alfa for less than that.