Restoration Candidate?

[Andrew]

I love resurrecting sad cases. I've done a lot of them. So if you're into it, great.
Andrew

[Denny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew I love resurrecting sad cases. I've done a lot of them. So if you're into it, great. Andrew

[Zunige]

First, welcome to the BB, Denny!

The most expensive and frustrating route to Spider ownership is buying a cheap car... Even at zero $$ (yes, I do believe this owner will have trouble selling that car at any price and will be forced to part her out), it will take more $$ than she will ever be worth to make her roadworthy and somewhat presentable. And those $$ don't include your labor.

A 1985 Spider has Bosch EFI, which is very reliable and "modern" for a vintage vehicle. It just isn't difficult to maintain such a Spider, but the biggest enemy of proper maintenance is lack of knowledge. People who don't understand these cars do all sort of things that progressively take the car further and further away from factory spec, both mechanically and cosmetically. The comment about needing an ECU certainly sounds like this one has had all sort of wrong things done to her. Furthermore, this car truly looks like it was never taken care off. Those pictures simply show way too much wrong and too many disassembled parts to suggest that whoever was in there had any idea of what they were doing.

In today's economic downturn Spiders are being advertised for 30%-50% off from asking prices of two years ago. Hence, you will find incredible deals in the $2500 and less range, and you will save big by starting a project with a solid car. Have a look at the Spiders being offered on this BB, and also around the country. (An internet search will pull up plenty of examples.) You may also want to contact the local Alfa Romeo Owners Club chapter, to take a look at some of the examples in the flesh, and speak with the owners. (The AROC web site is Alfa Romeo Owners Club USA.)

Best regards,

[Denny]

Zunige,

This particular example looks more like it was just left outside and ignored completely than improperly maintained. Neglect is easier for me to deal with than botched maintenance attempts. I'd rather fix something that was never touched than undo an ignorant attempt at repair.

At most, it looks like he took some things apart (passenger door) and simply stopped, not doing some idiotic jury rig fix. But I'll be able to tell better once the car is opened tonight for a closer look.

I've read enough on this BB already about non-running Alfas to realize that there are many causes for the engine to refuse to run - many if not most unrelated to the ECU. It came across to me that the owner was told that without any real troubleshooting by the mechanic. So, maybe I'll fool around and see if I can get it to fire up - if I can get the car for a price that reflects it's real condition...

[RandallM]

Hi denny and welcome to the BB.

I purchased my Spider 20 months ago for $2,000. It was not running, but the body was in good shape. It was only a $90 Flywheel sensor that kept it from sparking.

Anyway, I nearly purchased a junker like the one you're looking at, but waited and boy am I grateful I did. If you really want this one, buy it, but better things come to those that wait.

THis one's a parts car.

As for Spitfires I parked my Alfa next to one at a local car show, nice guy owned it. I was suprised how narrow the header pipes are on the Spitfire, but it's a little engine.

Good luck on what you decide.

[Alfajay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrington If you want an Alfa project car, start with a 1960s car, or a 71-74 GTV or Spider. As others have noted '80s Spiders in good shape are readily available at prices under $5k, so why put all that effort in for very little upside?

[Denny]

Well, the owner couldn't meet me at a time good for both of us, but he went by and unlocked it so I could look it over better.

The body looks to be very solid. The worst rust area - rear edge of the trunk - actually looks repairable, it'll take welding in a piece or two of sheet metal, but the edge is still solid. Also the whole area will be covered by the spoiler (in the trunk), so even if the patch job isn't perfect, it won't be noticeable.

The engine looks complete, but old. Very minor surface rust on almost everything. Can't see any leakage from around the head gasket. For some reason there's antifreeze in 2 of the spark plug recesses - I can't see where it could have leaked from.

The interior upholstery is shot, but I already knew that. dash pieces are sun-bleached and taken loose, but nothing looks to be broken. Pulled up the carpeting where I could, all the sheet metal looks good and solid.

Trunk sheet metal is likewise solid. Carpeting in there is still serviceable. A bit of acid gunk around the battery tray to clean up - no battery.

The big question looks to be whether or not I'll be able to start the motor again. The Alabama tag has a 2001 sticker on it, so it hasn't been on the road in 8 years or so. I have to assume the engine problems go back that far. There's oil on the dipstick that looks OK, as does the anti-freeze. Radiator looks solid and rust free. No split hoses. A few wires seemingly pulled out of place, but not a lot.

I think I'm willing to risk $200 - $250 on it. Have to get together with the owner and see if he's willing to be reasonable...

[vf31rhill]

Denny,
Ths is offered with the best intentions in the world. Unless you want to get into the Alfa parts business, DO NOT BUY THAT CAR! If you will exercise a little patience and broaden your shoping horizon, you will eventually find a far better car which will cost you less than you could ever spend to make a silk purse out of that pigs ear. Believe me, if you can see that much rust, there is twice more that you cannot see lurking to jump out at you later. I have extensive experience on BMC products, and if you think rusty rockers on an MGB are a problem, they are a snap compaired to rust in the rockers, floor pans, and panel joints in an Alfa.

I bought a pretty good 88 two years ago, but despite my inspection and decision that it was a rust free car, I have encountered 2 rust problems which I never saw on the initial insection. One minor, and one major enough that it cost me about $200.00 to repair with me doing all of the work except the actual mig welding.

In addition, I can see hundreds and even thousands of $$ worth of parts you will need to replace on that car, and that is with YOU doing all the work. That outside mirror is only avilable used, and the last I bought cost me $165.00 for the pair. The last I saw sold on ebay went for over $100.00 each. Your seat covers will cost you 2 - $300.00 just for kits in naugahide, or 4 - $600.00 in leather. Good used inside door panels are pretty much not findable, so you will have to get a set of used and build your own using the used set for parts/pattern. The missing trim (front emblem and rear spoiler assembly) will cost $200.00 if you get lucky. And you still don't have any idea what the situation is with the engine and transmission.

Buy it for parts if you have a situation at home that allows you to do so, or let it go. Start shoping craigslist looking for an Alfa. There was a white one in Atlanta last week that could be driven home - asking price was $1,800.00. They are out there, just start a systematic search and be patient. I went 1,000 miles to get mine, thought I found a peach, and it turned out to be a peach with a soft spot even at that. Not that I am complaining - I love my Alfa. But in hindsight, I could have done better with some patence and a systematic search.

Best Wishes, Robert in Memphis
1988 black Spider Veloce

[alfasax]

Stop thinking about that Alfa unless there are NO other Alfas around. It's not an orphan needing your help, it's a disaster waiting to drain your wallet and mental status. Put that car out of your mind!

[Denny]

OK guys, calm down.

The wife came home from work last night asking about the Spider. As I sat down with her and began describing the condition of the car with the work and parts I saw it needing, I felt my enthusiasm for the project draining out of me. In the end, I told her that even if the car were given to us it would probably be too much work & money to get back on the road.

So, we'll just keep looking for now. If anyone hears of a Spider for sale in the Space Coast area of Florida (east central - around Cocoa Beach), please let me know...

[FrancosAlfa]

I would highly recommend you not go with that car as others have said. One additional tip. Check out the 4 sale run on this board.
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa...-interior.html

I know this is a little more than you want to pay, but Look at what you would start with!

KKKKFL

[vf31rhill]

Denny,

I think you have reached the wise and correct decision.

Robert
1988 Black Spider Veloce

[Denny]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrancosAlfa I would highly recommend you not go with that car as others have said. One additional tip. Check out the 4 sale run on this board. http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa...-interior.html I know this is a little more than you want to pay, but Look at what you would start with! KKKKFL

[silverspider]

Well you are in luck then, as there has never been a shortage of "project" Alfa Spiders out there (ask me how i know -- on reflection, please don't). Have fun with the father/son project; I am guessing the process will be the reward.

[Geezer]

"Have to get together with the owner and see if he's willing to be reasonable..."

Since you're in the South, good luck with that one. Since moving down here I have discovered that a car has no worth until someone is interested in it, then it a priceless treasure. The general attitude is "I'll let rot to the ground before I give someone a deal."

Also there is no more expensive car than a free project.