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Spider Alternators

43K views 77 replies 31 participants last post by  mikespider 
#1 ·
Someone had mentioned their problems with spider electrical and alternators.
So here are some alternators that will fit.

First up is the stock alternator for 1981 Thru 1989 SPIDER
BOSCH 14V 23/65A
1986 Thru 1989 MILANO
1981 Thru 1986 GTV-6
Part # 14395
Bosch #AL16X
Reg. Type: IR (Internal Regulator

Photo of OEM ALTERNATOR BOSCH 14V 23/65A COMING FROM A ALFA ROMEO 1988 VELOCE 0120 489 905
 

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#2 ·
Easy upgrade 115 Amps

Alfa Romeo and Audi Bosch 115 Amp Alternator 1988- 1992
It fits Following Vehicles:
Alfa Romeo 164 1991 - 1992 V6
Audi 100 Series 1989 - 1991 2.3 liter1-1351-01BO
IR/EF Alternator for Bosch
115 Amp, 12 Volt, CW Rotation
Reg. Type: IR (Internal Regulator)
Fan Type: EF (External Fan)
Mtg. Ear Clocking: 02:00
Mtg. Ear Hole Size: M8 x 1.25
 

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#3 ·
Upgrade early alternator 80 amps

Alfa Romeo Bosch Alternator 80Amps

external regulator

This Alternator Drops In With No Mods Needed!!!

Alfetta, Berlina, Gt Volce, Spider, Duetto, Giulia

This Alternator fits the following applications:


Alfetta 75-80 2.0L

Berlina 75-72 2.0L

GT Veloce 75-72 2.0L

Spider 72-80 2.0L w/ External Regulator

Berlina 69-71 1.8l w/ Alternator

Berlina 70-71 2.0L w/ Alternator

Duetto 67-68 1.6L w/ Alternator

Giulia 67-68 1.6L w/ Alternator

GT Veloce 69-71 1.8L w/ Alternator

GTV, GTV6 67-68 1.6L/ 2.5L w/ Alternator

Older Models 71-64 All Engines w/ Alternator

Spider 69-71 1.8L w/ Alternator

Spider 70-71 2.0L w/ Alternator

1 year exchange warranty

This item is 100% tested by our technicians

BNR parts experts in Alternators and Starters since 1957

8 Certificates of Workmanship
 

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#4 ·
Don't ask for an Alfa alternator

Most big cities have alternator rebuild shops. Instaed of asking for an Alfa alternator, ask for a Bosch alternator using the part number.

Same thing for car parts stores, Pep Boys, Kragen, NAPA auto etc.
The following is from Rock Auto dot com
BECK/ARNLEY Part # 1860369 {May Not Include Pulley}
Alternator, Remanufactured, 115 Amperes;Serpentine 5 Groove;Bosch System;1 Per Car

BOSCH Part # AL179X Remanufactured Alternator - May Not Include Pulley

REMY Part # 14989

ACDELCO Part # 3341837 110 AMP #19134830

ACDELCO Part # 3341890 85 AMP #19134883 NOTE cost MORE than the 110 amp
 
#60 ·
Most big cities have alternator rebuild shops. Instaed of asking for an Alfa alternator, ask for a Bosch alternator using the part number.

Same thing for car parts stores, Pep Boys, Kragen, NAPA auto etc.
The following is from Rock Auto dot com
BECK/ARNLEY Part # 1860369 {May Not Include Pulley}
Alternator, Remanufactured, 115 Amperes;Serpentine 5 Groove;Bosch System;1 Per Car

BOSCH Part # AL179X Remanufactured Alternator - May Not Include Pulley

REMY Part # 14989

ACDELCO Part # 3341837 110 AMP #19134830

ACDELCO Part # 3341890 85 AMP #19134883 NOTE cost MORE than the 110 amp
Any idea why the 85 amp AC Delco alternator is usually more expensive than the 110 amp when it has less capacity?
 
#6 ·
The more devices and loads a vehicle has, the higher the alternator output amperage needs to be to keep up. If the loads exceed the alternator output, the battery will supply the difference but for only a finite period of time.

In addition, an alternator will output only the amperage needed to supply the loads and charge the battery. What this means is that if all the loads total, say, 50 amps, a 110 amp alternator will output only 50 amps. And all through stock wiring.

So unless your Alfetta has a megawatt sound system or multi-hundred watt headlamps or something, there is no need for a 110 amp alternator.
 
#7 · (Edited)
So unless your Alfetta has a megawatt sound system or multi-hundred watt headlamps or something, there is no need for a 110 amp alternator.
Phrased another way, if you install an alternator with the capacity of delivering up to 110 amps, it is still only going to put out the amperage necessary to support the loads an Alfetta imposes, which is maybe 20 or 30 amps - unless, as Papajam wrote, you have "a megawatt sound system or multi-hundred watt headlamps".

So calling one of these larger alternators an "upgrade" is a misnomer. Unless you need the additional capacity, it's just a waste of money. Switching to an internally-regulated alternator DOES make sense, in that they are more reliable, and the output is "cleaner" than with the old-style systems with external, mechanical regulators.
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the info. Electrical stuff always baffles me even though I know the basics. Just thought some added amperage might be good for the old girl....****, but now you got me thinking giant stereo system.....oh, but I guess the only sound system you need in any alfa is the good old combustion chambers echoing through the ANSA! stereos are for teenagers with japanese cars!

Anyways, guess i''ll have to figure out the electrical problems contained in the car elsewhere....
 
#10 ·
Would a stock S3 Spider alternator fit the bill? It's a Bosch AL16X rated at 65 amps, has an internal regulator and is a direct bolt-in.
Just put one in our 71 GTV with only a minor mod needed to hook up the warning light wire (needed to make the wire longer).
 
#12 ·
Welcome, George.

The wires from the old alternator that will no longer be used are the D- (brown) and DF (black). Wires to be reused are the B+ (thick red) and D+ (green).
There are two versions of the alternator to external regulator wiring on the 1969 cars. One version has a stand alone 3-wire harness and TWO green wires on the alternator D+ terminal. With this version, simply remove the external regulator, the 3-wire harness, change the green wire D+ connector at the alternator from a ring terminal to a female spade connector and you're done. The other version uses an attached 3-wire harness and has only ONE green wire on the alternator D+ terminal but has two green wires siamesed together at the D+ terminal at the regulator. This version can be modified in one of two ways. One way is to cut both green wires from the D+ terminal connector at the regulator and then splice the two green wires wires together. This method will leave for removal a 2-wire regulator harness. The other way is to cut only the green wire at the regulator D+ terminal that goes into the body harness. This method will leave for removal a reusable 3-wire regulator harness. Then, extend the cut green wire from the body harness and connect it to the D+ terminal on the alternator.
 
#61 ·
George, you seem to be the quite the authority on these old Alfas. Can I use the alternator for a 1971 GTV with an internal voltage regulator if I wire it the way you suggested in this post. Will the mounting and existing pulley work with this alternator on a 69 spider 1750?
Regards, J Garland
 
#13 ·
one more question regarding all of this:

will a 164 alternator work on the these engines? i picked one up and it looks like different mounting but not sure if it will still fit as i haven't had a chance to try it. also, the entire alternator is a bit larger so also not sure if that will be a problem. i've seen some threads about using a 164 alt on these earlier cars but they weren't too detailed.

and thanks papajam for the great notes on wiring as that would have been my next question....
 
#14 ·
^^^^doh, forgot which thread i was in....

anyways, the 164 alt that i have is not a straight bolt in mod. it has a smaller main bolt lower mounting hole so it won't simply use the existing bolt. it looks like i could enlarge the aluminum on the alternator and make the mounting hole larger. also, it is a very tight fit under the mounting bracket of the air pump so i'm not even sure if it would have enough room for adjustment. and finally, it would need a slightly longer fan belt because the body of the alternator is larger, it extends the pulley which lengthens the actual distance thatb the belt must reach.

i think it could be made to fit but it would be much easier to just fit the proper one.


and so is an internal regulator better? does it matter? it seems there are less old fragile wires dangling around the engine bay when using the internal. i know all of my green & brown wires and their connectors are brittle, greasy, and just hanging on for dear life. and with an internal reg, the wires can be bolted on so no worrying about them coming loose and breaking connection which i suppose is nice but just wondering if there are other advantages.
 
#15 · (Edited)
and so is an internal regulator better? does it matter?
I'd vote "yes". The original external regulators were mechanical - not solid state. So even if the alternator-regulator wiring is sound, the points in the regulator will eventually fail. Internally-regulated alternators all use solid-state regulation, which in addition to being more reliable, produces a more precise voltage. Yes, there are aftermarket external regulators that are solid-state, but...

it seems there are less old fragile wires dangling around the engine bay when using the internal. i know all of my green & brown wires and their connectors are brittle, greasy, and just hanging on for dear life. and with an internal reg, the wires can be bolted on so no worrying about them coming loose and breaking connection which i suppose is nice but just wondering if there are other advantages.
There's also this problem with external regulators: more wires & connectors = less reliability.

Note: When we said that the Milano alternator was a "bolt on", I don't think we meant that the fan belt would necessarily transfer over.
 
#16 ·
ok, one more question: will the internal voltage regulator from a milano or S3 spider work on an older external regulator alfetta alternator? in other words, can i get a milano voltage regulator and attach it to my alfetta alternator and turn it into an internally regulated system and then just wire it up appropriately? they both use two phillips screws in a similar manner to attach the brush holder which also contains the regulator or 3 prong plug for the external regulator. just don't know if the screw spacing and everything else is the same.....
 
#17 · (Edited)
ok, found a milano alternater with the internal regulator and need to wire it in to my alfetta.

obviously the red wire stays the same but i assume i just need to connect the green wire in the pics to the D+ spade connector on the back of the milano alternator. so i can just add an extension from the black connector in the pics to the alternator and lose the whole 3 wire connector, correct?

papajam, your explanation was helpful but i think my configuration is different from the 2 you described so just want to make sure i'm not overlooking anything.

also, what is the other electrical thing in the pics next to the voltage regulator?

pics:


external voltage regulator and wiring harness:

Wire Electrical wiring Technology Auto part Electronic device


Wire Electrical wiring Electrical supply Cable Technology



the old alternator with the external regulator connections:
Auto part Engine Carburetor Automotive engine part Fuel line
 
#19 ·
...connect the green wire in the pics to the D+ spade connector on the back of the milano alternator. so i can just add an extension from the black connector in the pics to the alternator and lose the whole 3 wire connector, correct?
Correct. Alfa made this one easy by providing a connector for the green wire. Not all Alfas have this connector

The 3-wire device next to the voltage regulator looks to be the horn relay.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I've got a pm out but why not share the knowledge...... I ordered the Bosch 65 amp. The stock 45 amp puts out 12.9 with no load, sometimes 13 at speed. When the lights, heater fan, aircon, basically everything on the bat voltage is 11.8 more or less. The alt light has been barely coming on at interment intervals, never bright, just enough to see in the daytime. Had a voltmeter hooked up at the same time and as expected the volts were below 12 when the light would dimly come on. Funny thing is that if I jiggle the 3 prong at the alt it will go out for a couple of days. Could just be a dirty connection which has been cleaned and so far no alt light but the numbers are the same and I definitely need more amps. Since I'm about to drive to Michigan and back to Texas. A hotrod bud talked me into going on the Hot Rod Power Tour. He says it's the most fun he's had ever or in a long time anyway. The last thing I want is to do any harm to the marque especially surrounded by 500 or more big block hot rods. Anyway I ordered the Bosch 65 amp but it doesn't come with a pulley. Someone please tell me my old pulley from the 45 amp will fit the new 65 amp Bosch. If not I need to jump on this right away, leaving in two weeks.
Thanks!
 
#24 ·
yup, the pulleys all seem to be the same fit, even onto a 164. (of course that doesn't help me with the alt i bought as i can't get the **** nut off! soaked it for days in liquid wrench, using a 2.5 foot breaker bar, heated it up with a torch and it still won't budge. don't know why it would be so tight. i might have to install it as is into my milano just so i can use the one in my milano in the alfetta, as i'm assuming i will be able to get that nut off! yup, and i know what happens when you assume....)
 
#26 ·
An airgun will take the pulley nut off in seconds. Hold the pulley and cooling fan in one gloved hand and zip the nut (22mm or 7/8") off with the other. Transfer all required parts to the replacement alternator and zip the nut back on.
 
#27 ·
yeah, that's what makes the removal extra difficult is that it's hard to stop the alt from spinning. but even with a screw driver wedged in, i can't budge it. in fact, i've destroyed many of the vanes on the cooling fan trying to get it off. and don't have an air gun but might have to take it somewhere which i really hate to do in LA because it's so hard to find someone to do anything like that.
 
#28 ·
Coming home from my Granddaughters dance recital last night I had everything on and no dim light, so I'm guessing dirty three prong connections at the alt. The reason I say is that before I cleaned them a jiggle would fix the problem for a couple of days. but I'm still low on volts and will feel better with 65 amps:)
 
#29 ·
Miguel,
I did the same on mine back right after I got her. Alternator said byby after a couple of months and the boys at O'Reillys in CS were able to hook me up with a 65 amp Bosch from the warehouse in Houston. They even changed out the pulley for me in the store.
Still working great after 9 years.....knock on the old noggin.
 
#30 ·
Cool, checked the volts with everything on and had 12.9 with the 45 amp. Should I leave it on and drive a 1000 miles and go for it or put a spare pulley on before leaving and take it?
 
#31 ·
Go for it Mike! Put the spare in the trunk, gas in the tank, air in the tires, load up the cooler and hit the road Jack, and don't 'cha look back!
When are you leaving for this adventure?
 
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