Just acquired my first Alfa -- HELP!

[TVD]

Hello. As a brand new member here, my first post to this forum is a call for help...

As a lifelong British car enthusiast, who is comfortable tearing apart just about any part on an MG or Jag, but has never before even touched an Alfa, I just took advantage of an opportunity to acquire a 1978 Spider, a nice rust-free car that has only one problem -- it doesn't run. This is looking like a major challenge, especially with the Spica fuel injection that I am only beginning to learn about. Actually the car does run, but barely. I'm hoping the friendly people here can give me some ideas on where to start. Here are the facts:

The car has 40,000 real miles. It was recently pulled from 1-year storage and starts easily but runs extremely rough when both cold and hot (better when hot, but still awful). All four Plugs are black, sooty, but not overly damp with gas. There is a smell of gas in the oil. Compression is 180 in all cylinders. No evidence of head gasket, ring, or valve problems. No overheating, no excessive smell of gasoline around the car.

I know the previous owner to be honest and not one to hammer an engine, and the car definitely ran okay when it went into storage. PO got an opinion from a local "foreign car" mechanic, who suggests the TA is likely bad, and/or injectors, but pump is probably okay. His thinking is that the mixture is just extremely rich. But the exhaust doesn't really have a gasoline smell and the exhaust is more gray/blue smoke than black soot. But on the other hand, there are the sooty plugs and smell of gas in the oil.

I'm not actually convinced it's an injection problem (maybe just wishful thinking). I plan to delve into every other possible fault before resorting to paying for an FI rebuild. I have all the recommended Alfa and Spica manuals on order to get me started, and I intend to have fun with this project -- the very low purchase price of the car leaves plenty of room to make mechanical repairs, if necessary.

Could there be a connection between the long layup and the appearance of FI problems? Maybe some cleaning that I should try first?

Thanks for ANY thoughts. I will report progress as I have a chance to troubleshoot bit by bit.

This really is a generally sound car, very attractive and well built -- I'm very anxious to enjoy it!

Tom Demergian
Madison, Wisconsin

[smestas]

Tom,

First of welcome to the site!

Im no expert on the SPICA system but we do have a member here on the site John aka:roadtrip who has written some great SPICA diagnostics sheets. I hope these links help you to get on your way.

Fuel_Supply_Diagnostic_Guide

Roadside_Diagnosis

Replacing and Adjusting Thermostatic Actuator

[GreyGTV6]

Welcome to the insane world of Alfa ownership. You normally need to have some type of mental aberration to qualify for ownership, but having owned the Brit cars, you seem to be well qualified.

[AngloSpider]

Hi, welcome to Alfa ownership!

I have a later spider with Bosch fuel injection. The car ran a little rough when I first got it (not as bad as yours sounds).

I got quite a significant improvement by putting a cleaning agent in the fuel tank and then thrashing the car for a couple of long runs - keeping in fourth rather than fifth to keep the revs up.

The stuff I used is Redex Petrol Injection treatment. I ran three tanks in succession at the "treatment" level and it definitely made a difference.

If your car has been stored with fuel in the system then the light stuff does evaporate and leave the heavier elements that can clog the jets.

Good luck.

[Toptick]

I seem to recall that gas smell in the oil indicated injection pump wear. Roadtrip is your man for that diagnosis, however.

[fetta78]

Change the oil and filter, Injection Pump filter, replace the plugs and gap em correctly, drive it around nicely 'till it's all warmed up then give 'er hell!

Seriously..........run it up the rpm range and it should start to transform before your eyes, ears, feet and hands.

If that doesn't work...............there are some some mighty talented Alfa folks up there in Wisconson. Join the Club and have a Tech Session on your car!

[turbolarespider]

Soot ususally means rich...

I know Roadtrip will probably say to rebuild the pump, as they don't like storage all that much.

But, I will suggest that you tune that baby up (with his very good instructions) before going down the rebuild path. It's VERY possible that you are putting so much fuel in the cylinders that liquid fuel is getting past the rings, and diluting the oil. I did this on a car a few years ago (an EFI car), and almost had a hear attack when I drained the oil. Massive oil smell.

Anyway, the only way you will know is to get it running right (or close), change the oil, and make sure the engine is running at full operating temps, which will drive off the gas from the rings. If, after that, there still is gas in the oil, pump needs swapped.

BTW, as long as you don't dilute the oil too much, and drive hard, you won't do much harm to the engine. The pump wont like it, but Wes has so many good pumps that I hear he does not take too many cores.

Just a suggestion.

IMHO, SPICA is totally awesome. Once you get it running, you don't have to do anything for a LONG time.

Eric

[TVD]

Thanks for the advice. I have also discovered a ton of useful information by searching these forums and by following the links provided here, and I am anxious to get to work on this car. I expect to be back with more questions!

Tom Demergian
Madison, Wisconsin
1978 Spider

[AlfaRomeo1750]

Hey Tom,

Welcome to the wonderful, and terrible world of Alfa ownership. Having read your postings, my best advice for you would be to..

1) Drain the fuel tank, even if you put in new gas (let any crap run out)
2) Change all the fuel filters
3) New plugs, wires, Cap rotor etc (routine stuff)
4) Change the engine oil (if you have not already) and keep an eye on it for new fuel smell.
5) Check the tank fuel pump for propper running and pressure

Once you have done all these things, you will be able to see how the car behaves. If it runs fine, then you found the problem..and it wasnt a waste of time as they are all good measures to perform on a newly purchased old car. If not, Start checking the oil again for fuel smell as that is the number one sign that the FI pump is on its way out. It is cooled by Gasoline and lubricated by the oil sump... if the two are mixing it is a definate sign the pump is gone and needs replacement or rebuilding. Also the mixing isnt a good things as it dilutes the engine oil.

My two cents: if the pump needs replacement try and switch over to Weber Carbs. They were used as original in Italy, and the kit is slightly less money than a proper rebuild, plus they are infinately more easy to tune.

I hope some of this helps, If you have any other questions please feel free to ask

Regards
Martin.

71 Spider Veloce
81 GTV6
87 Quadrifoglio
93 164 S

[Jr. Z]

Tom:
I'm sure Roadtrip will chime in with the same answer, but you do need to have Wes Ingram rebuild your SPICA pump ASAP. Gas smell in the oil is a dead, 100%, guaranteed, giveaway of a leaking pump. Call Wes, he's in the supplier list, I think he will advise you not to drive the car until the pump is rebuilt. No sense frying your bearings when a rebuilt pump will get you back on the road with a good engine that runs right.

Wes just gave a great clinic @ the convention in Seattle, he stressed over and over and over that gas smell in the oil means leaking pump & fried motor if you keep driving the car. He has a guide that describes how to remove the pump, just take the complete pump unit off & send to Wes & you'll get a nice shiny rebuilt pump back & you'll be back on the road.

Wes is one of the truly good guys in our hobby and is a big fan of SPICA. He's the world's expert on SPICA, folks from all over the world send 'em pumps to be rebuilt (although most cars with it were sold in the US), it's a great system when it's set up correctly and is very reliable as well. His prices are very reasonable for rebuilding pumps when you find out how much time & effort go into the job.
Bruce

[jarrington]

I don't believe gas in the oil is always a bad SPICA pump. I seem to recall reading something by Roadtrip saying that an extremely rich mixture - which this seems to be - can also cause diluted oil. In my case a rebuilt pump was necessary, and converting to Webers is not an option since my state doesn't have a 30 year exemption for emissions. Even with a bad pump my car ran very well, so I like Eric's suggestion of changing the oil and getting it running properly, then keeping an eye out for signs of a bad pump.

Another way to test the pump is to pull out the barometric compensator and extract some of the oil from the pump. If that oil smells like gas then yeah, it sounds like you need to make a call to the SPICA doc (Wes Ingram). Look through the "Pre-purchase inspection" thread by Roadtrip for some great info. I wish I had done so "pre-purchase"...

Good Luck!
-Jason

[Roadtrip]

Gas in the oil is almost always a sign of a worn injection pump. That said, a better check would be to remove the barometric compensator on top of the injection pump and give it the whiff test. If it smells like stale gas, the pump needs to be overhauled.

Wes charges about $750 for a standard overhaul, which is a lot cheaper than a carb conversion, unless you can find some used. I'd recommend sticking with the SPICA system. With a fresh rebuild and using Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas, it'll last a very very long time.