Starts and Dies 88 spider

aggie06 · #1 (**permalink**) 12-13-2008, 02:23 PM

I have an 88 spider that starts healthy and will run for approx 3 seconds and then dies. Once the car starts up you can rev the engine up but once it desides to stop it just putters out. Please any ideas.

Elio Comello · #2 (**permalink**) 12-13-2008, 03:05 PM

From what you describe, it sounds like the engine runs only on the CSI (cold start injector) which stops injecting once the Thermo/Time switch shuts it down.

Check that the fuel filter is nor restricting flow.

Other checks: fuel pumps, fuel pressure regulator (at end of the fuel rail).

The Fuel Injector ECU, not operating, because of bad ground(s) or blown fuse. Also check the Drive (tachymetric) relay under the rear shelf next to the FI ECU, that is the one that senses the coil operation and tells the FI ECU to inject.

If the ECU can't supply a ground, the injectors will not be able to inject.

Also see GHNL's signature page and link to his excellent Bosch L Jet diagnostics page.

TTFN Elio

aggie06 · #3 (**permalink**) 12-13-2008, 03:16 PM

i have a noid test kit and am going to see if the injectors are firing. sounds like they should not fire if there is any electrical issue. is that correct?

aggie06 · #4 (**permalink**) 12-13-2008, 04:23 PM

Well the injectors are getting voltage, the noid light flashed rapidly untill the car cut out. thinking it might be the fuel pump. any other ideas

**ghnl** · #5 (**permalink**) 12-14-2008, 11:46 AM

This confuses me:

Quote:

you can rev the engine up but once it desides to stop it just putters out...

**peterlund** · #6 (**permalink**) 12-14-2008, 01:15 PM

My bet is ,(as Eric suggested)... The Drive relay. I bet.... $1 trillion dollars, or GM, and Ford.... Whichever suits your fancy!

aggie06 · #7 (**permalink**) 12-14-2008, 03:55 PM

Well i have been working on the car most of the day.

If you start the car it runs good for about 3 seconds.

If you rev it up and pat the gas it will run a bit longer but no amount of patting the gas will keep it runing and it seems to starve out of fuel.

here is a list of what we have tried.

1) looked for air leeks in the intake and found non (when running you can see the air intake hose compress a small about due to the vacume in the line)
2) used a noid to verify that the injectors are getting electrical signal
3) directly tied the inline external fuel pump to the battery and tried to start the car ( when doing this you could hear the pump and the regulator bypassing the extra fuel pressure when not trying to start the car)
4) disconnected the by pass side of the pressure regulator on the fuel rail and about 2oz of fluid comes out when the key is ingaged to the run position
5) hooked up to the feed line on the fuel rail and pressure goes to 55psi when the key is ingaged then if ingaged again to about 85psi
6) examined the air flow meter and it functions open and closed smoothly.

All of the above resulted in the same results with the car running for seconds and cutting out.

**peterlund** · #8 (**permalink**) 12-14-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aggie06

Well i have been working on the car most of the day.

If you start the car it runs good for about 3 seconds.

If you rev it up and pat the gas it will run a bit longer but no amount of patting the gas will keep it runing and it seems to starve out of fuel.

here is a list of what we have tried.

1) looked for air leeks in the intake and found non (when running you can see the air intake hose compress a small about due to the vacume in the line)
2) used a noid to verify that the injectors are getting electrical signal
3) directly tied the inline external fuel pump to the battery and tried to start the car ( when doing this you could hear the pump and the regulator bypassing the extra fuel pressure when not trying to start the car)
4) disconnected the by pass side of the pressure regulator on the fuel rail and about 2oz of fluid comes out when the key is ingaged to the run position
5) hooked up to the feed line on the fuel rail and pressure goes to 55psi when the key is ingaged then if ingaged again to about 85psi
6) examined the air flow meter and it functions open and closed smoothly.

All of the above resulted in the same results with the car running for seconds and cutting out.

**ghnl** · #9 (**permalink**) 12-14-2008, 05:39 PM

Can you hook up the fuel pressure gauge so it is "tee'd" into the supply line? That way you can observe if the fuel pressure remains adequate. I suspect the fuel rail is getting initial pressurization when you turn the key to 'start' but it is not remaining pressurized after the engine starts (and the key is not in the 'start' position). This would point to the drive relay not supplying power to the pumps.

Have you tested the two flywheel sensors?

**papajam** · #10 (**permalink**) 12-14-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aggie06

2) used a noid to verify that the injectors are getting electrical signal

**ghnl** · #11 (**permalink**) 12-14-2008, 08:47 PM

Here's the procedure from the Alfa Shop Manual:

aggie06 · #12 (**permalink**) 02-08-2009, 07:56 PM

Well i finally got a chance to work on the alfa this weekend and the fuel system appears to be just fine. with a "T" in line with a pressure gauge as the car starts the pressure remains between 30 and 38 psi. One note as the car died the fuel pressure rose back to the initial pressure before turning the car over to start(38-psi). So my guess would be not anything to do with the fuel system from at least the injectors back. Does this help come up with any other ideas. My next coarse of action will be to pull a plug wire put an old plug in ground it out and check for spark.

Maloga · #13 (**permalink**) 03-06-2009, 08:04 AM

The fuel injectors may be clogged. I have been having similar problems with my spider so I replaced the battery with an optima deep cycle marine battery, removed and cleaned out fuel tank, installed new in tank fuel pump, checked primary pump pressure, installed a new regulator, installed an new coil, installed new wires, new plugs, new filter, new temperature sensor and checked vacuum connections. Finally unhooked fuel injector from block and tried to turn the car over. #1 injector sputtered a little and the other 3 just dripped.

aggie06 · #14 (**permalink**) 03-06-2009, 09:36 AM

How was the fuel injector removal process, fairly straight forward?

Maloga · #15 (**permalink**) 03-06-2009, 09:52 AM

It is relatively easy. There are 2 hex head bolts holding the injectors in place. I unhooked the #4 first because it was easy to access. Once you remove the screws pull back on the injector until it clears the block. I leaned it against the cam cover to do the initial test to avoid kinking the injection hose.